Yeah, I wanted to say something about the “play on top of it” kind of workflow but couldn’t think what to call it. “Vamping” maybe? The way it records “takes” is pretty good for this, but I find the lack of looping a pretty large deal breaker, here. Though not an issue at all if the “backing” tracks can all loop independently on their respective devices, which is what it sounds like you’ve got going on
And you’re right that all its inputs and routing make it great for sends. There are so many great things like this about the Bluebox! But it somehow manages to be less than the sum of its parts.
Like, in this case, if I want to ride the “faders” for sends to, say, a reverb bus, I’m limited to two tracks at a time (and only if those tracks are in the same 1–4 group). Which shouldn’t be an issue at all… except I can’t punch in or overdub onto the reverb track, so I’ve got to do everything at once in one take or take it to a DAW — in which case routing and sends (with automation!) would be so much easier to do there in the first place.
It’s like its random limitations keep getting in the way of its amazing strengths. But limitations, as they say, breed creativity. I’m sure I’m not getting creative enough with it. I’m really glad others are gelling with it!
and on top of all of that stuff about limitations being great for creativity, the bluebox should be able to record loops… simple as that, definitely not too much to expect.
This was the final straw that broke my GAS when I was looking at this device. The idea that to get the files off you have to eject the card and take it elsewhere. In this day and age it just doesn’t seem right. Really it should function as a USB sdcard reader that you can hook up but also offer WIFI transfer if people want to use that.
Think about it with a audio interface hooked to an iPad you can multitrack record and you have infinite ways of getting the files off and certainly none of them involve inserting and ejecting cards
It’s disappointing that it doesn’t let you navigate around inside the recording, which I assume is a limitation of everything streaming to/from the card. It’s the flipside of the current MPCs, which will happily let you overdub, change location and shift audio tracks around, but only within the confines of the available RAM - so no extended takes there. I think the world is still waiting for an all-out digital tape machine that expands on the OP-1’s approach with mutlispeed, splicing and so on. Kickstarter that with a nice OLED tape display, a tape loop mode and maybe a virtual splicing block where you can cut the tape ‘physically’ for crossfades and I bet the pledges would roll in. Stretch goals: a Dolby switch and a physical tape counter.
This was my thought (and fear) as well. But then I wonder how my Model12 manages with (I assume, given its price) way less than 48kHZ/24bit × 12 tracks worth of RAM. Or, for that matter, DR-40x, H4n, etc. Maybe TASCAM and Zoom have been doing this long enough they know all the SD card tricks? And maybe 1010 will learn them?
Yes, please! I honestly think I’d pay the price of a full OP-1 for a box that was just the tape-mode and an SD card.
Yeah, it is a baffler, and my Zoom R16 is another example that can happily skip through streamed samples. I guess there are dev focus considerations, and not all components are born equal… but not being able to rewind / ff is a deal breaker here. It’s a shame as (like you, by the sound of it) I’m always on the lookout for the holy grail of this kind of thing. How’s the Model 12 for that? The R16 is a nice quick recorder, but the lack of sync limits its usefulness for me. The Bluebox sounded like a potential solution at first, but it seems not… currently the Octatrack is probably the most flexible solution I have, but that involves a lot of active memory management for longer samples.
Actually I also have a Yamaha AW16G which has good solid MIDI sync, but feels a bit creaky now… the sad truth is I have loads of devices that fit the bill for digital recording, but I’m just too picky…
If the Blackbox had multiple physical ins, as well as the settings for eq and compression from the Bluebox, it would be all that you fellas ask for. It does the rest already.
And it has the eq and compression onboard already, not just the parameters to tweak it. So it’s pretty close already.
I won’t go super in-depth for fear of going off topic. Feel free to DM me with any questions. But I was using a R24 before the Model12 and moved for the same reason: clock and transport sync. And that works great! Really happy with it.
More details about R24 vs. Model 12 vs. OP-1 below:
R24->M12 is a different workflow, though. M12 is a lot closer to how the OP-1 works. With the R24, I could assign arbitrary wavs to arbitrary tracks, edit them, trim them, make bunches of takes, etc. The wav was the main unit of playback and were treated almost like long samples (probably because of the built-in sampler ).
The M12 does a lot to hide the idea that you have wav files at all. It really wants you to think in terms of tracks on a giant length of tape. You can make sections using marks, jump back and forth, punch in, overdub, etc. And on the SD card each track is its own long wav file. But overall it behaves much more like a digital reel-to-reel than the R24.
But, whereas the OP-1 has the fairly brilliant “lift” and “drop” system, the M12 does not. If I want to nudge track 1 a bar forward or something, I have to “lift” it by recording it to a different “tape” (usually my 40x or iPad), set the “playhead” of the M12 to where I want it, and lay it down again by recording.
Usually I really enjoy how the simplicity of this model lets me declutter my brain. But it does back me into a corner every once in a while. When that happens, I’ve got to go to DAW to bail me out. But the M12, at least, has really excellent class-compliant audio drivers and acts as a SD card reader. So this is super easy.
I love the multiple outs goes straight into my SiX. Wouldn’t do without them.
But another stereo in, slightly more detail on the compressor and filter - doesn’t have to be on the Bluebox level, I think they took it way too far considering its somewhat harsh digital nature - and it would be even more awesome than it is today.
Thanks for that review @jemmons! I’m a few weeks into my Bluebox experience as well and I echo that feeling of a lack of focus. I also agree that the UI is really pleasant
I’m currently using mine as a tabletop mixer. I would be more frustrated with it but I had pretty low expectations going into it - because of the confines on my space, the Bluebox is really the only option. I needed something with a lot of inputs and I appreciate the BlueBox’s flexible input routing. The EQ and compression are nice, the delay is okay, but the reverb is pretty hard to dial in something musical, in my experience.
I do think that updates are going to come from 1010 that address some of the MTR issues. I think we’ll get punch in and loop points. I think we’ll get more options for recording (pre-EQ/fader and post EQ/fader, muting the EQ effect).
I feel that this box was partly designed to be used in conjunction with the BlackBox. They would provide a strong base for composing and recording.
Can you skip ahead with a long sample on the Blackbox? i.e. jump straight to the middle of a 16-bar sample that’s playing alongside a sequenced melody? It’s been a while since I’ve used it and I genuinely can’t remember. Not having transport options on a device designed for recording seems… well, odd, but I know the Blackbox has had a lot of feature development since I got mine, so maybe it’s on the roadmap. At least the touchscreen means there’s scope for adding these things without getting into unlabeled button combo territory…
Thanks, that’s very interesting. The R16 isn’t great for editing in-place audio, and as I recall the AW16G is quite limited there too… I used to have a Roland VS, which I think was better but would refuse to record the first second or so of a synced track. Nobody has managed to quite crack it yet, for me, though the Octatrack does come close once you know what needs to be done in the various menus. When I have the money to look into this again, I might just give in and get a dedicated recording laptop. And then start finding fault with that.
Well, kind of. You can set up manual splices and play those in any order. It’s not transport control, but pretty close and of course, start, end and loop points can be set and modulated as well.
Nope. I’m sure they’re listening and might work more on the recording parts if it makes sense to them. I’m equally sure it wasn’t a definite part of the roadmap when 1.0 was released.
I quite liked the VS (technical issues aside). I’m torn as to whether the answer is “just be more like tape” or “completely break the paradigm”. I’m alternately excited/confused/disappointed about Roland’s MV-1 and the possibilities around recording free-form audio takes along side a sequenced grid with a focus on arrangement instead of performance, for example. But I just can’t wrap my head around it from the videos. I’ll have to break down and get hands-on with one eventually.
But then I look at the amazing looking hardware DirtyWave is doing on the (otherwise completely unrelated) M8 and think “Maybe I should just start coding my ideal thing up on a Teensy.” Indi hardware is getting both ridiculously good and achievable. I mean, the BB itself is what in any other period of history would be considered indi.
Yeah. DAWs have cracked it. I wish I could say why I find them so unsatisfying. I should start investing more in therapy and less in MTRs (kidding/not at all kidding).
At the risk of sounding like a (quite lovely) vinyl (recorded to tape), the Blackbox has no issues handling free form recordings way longer than Roland’s MV-1, along side tightly sequenced stuff, as well as trimmed loops and live triggering.
I keep coming back to this because what people don’t get with the Blackbox, until they’ve tried it and then possibly attached to it, is that it’s not about its features. It really is about the free form way it approaches recording, sequencing and arranging and the fluent way this is implemented. There are other samplers out there doing similar things, but none as streamlined and straight on, as the Blackbox.
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goes straight into my SiX. Wouldn’t do without them.
and of course, start, end and loop points can be set and modulated as well.