I don’t own a TR-8, but a make or break issue with deciding to buy one with paid expansions is if they can be used alongside the native kits. The System-1 puts me off because it is an either/or situation of using the native synth, the 101 emulation, etc. If you can use the 7X7 kit alongside the native 808 and 909 kits and maybe mix and match…it’s still expensive, but it’s not such a bad deal. If I’d have to swap the 808 for the 707…no thanks.
of course, all sounds can be mixed and matched, that’s the beauty of the machine. Technically, every track can select between 16 sounds, and you can make kits that use any of those sounds. Switching between sounds is a painless and instant process. This upgrade is additive and doesn’t take anything away from the existing functionality of the TR8.
Cheers !
Maybe somebody can clarify, since I don’t own a TR8, but isn’t the Aira series supposed to mimic the actual circuitry of the original machines?
If so, I bet Roland (maker of the original machines) have done something more than just stick a new “sample pack” in the machine.
What you’re getting for the price is another drum machine recreation/reincarnation. If they had made another physical durm machine with sliders, but the same brain inside… no one would complain… right?
I also think I’m ok with Cenk witty comment: I’m sure he didn’t really meant to look down on Roland machines (or any other brand for that matter), but since he is an addicted Elekron user (as many of us are) to the point of working for them, he just pointed out how Elektron is awesome in giving free updates and patches for the final user owner.
PS. most Elektron sample pack are actually made by other companies that also don’t work of free…
yep but add 606 and the 78 then im in, could careless about some 707/727 sounds,
hardly iconic and i had both when they were new!
does anyone know if they are samples or modelling samples??? which just seems wtf
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A bit of both. The sampled sounds are samples from the original machine’s ROMs, which are followed by a modelling stage, which tries to model the analog parts of the signal chain, such as the VCA.[/quote]
ahh thanks, interesting they can stick samples in it.
I am not sure if they are actual samples. As far as I understand, its modelling of the each sounds.
I’m quite sure the engine is a mixture of modelled sounds and samples. Remember, even the 909 is not fully analog, some of the instruments are samples (ride and hats for example). The 707/727 sounds are samples from the original machine’s ROM, with modelling of the VCA and envelope stages are believe.
Someone also opened a TR-8 and apparently there’s a huge amount (for a simple drum machine) of memory in there, something like 750MB.
Seems pretty weird to make this about a representative of Elektron saying something that might have hurt the feelings of Roland Incorporated, but if that’s your take away from the whole thread, go for it…
The sounds in the TR8 are modeled from the original Roland sounds. You can read up on their ACB technology here :
I suspect that, even though the originals used samples for some of their voices, the TR8 uses the ACB technology for all their voices, therefore modeling the behavior of PCM samples running through analog circuitry and interacting with each other in an “interesting” way. The new sounds are not samples, but modeling of the originals, recreating not only the sound, but the quirks and unstability of samples running through an analog machine.
One could draw a parallel between this and the AR, where digital samples are passed through analog filters / overdrive / distortion, and are played in conjunction with analog voices, creating a compound sound that is certainly far greater than its constituents in isolation.
I find this new ACB concept fascinating, and I have to say that it does create a very lively sound. It sounds to me that Elektron have tried their own version of this unstable behavior with the Random parameter for the Claps machine, where it does indeed sound like every hit is a bit different, while still keeping the clap consistent. Of course, Elektron’s live recording of p-locks puts them in a league of their own when it comes to subtle (or drastic) variations of sounds over time.
The TR8 expansion is indeed somewhat similar to buying another drum machine. What I do love about it is the easiness with which one can mix and match those classic sounds, and the way they are reproduced in a faithful, loving (!) and legitimate way. I have a feeling that, in a few years time, the TR8 will be a staple in electronic music making studios, not only for its sounds, but for its playability. The inclusion of reverb and delay, although seemingly innocuous, adds incredible depth to those classic sounds, and makes the machine sound decidedly “up to date”. There is room for both the AR and the TR8 in anyone’s studio.
Most of my students still are way more attracted by the TR8, simply because :
- it’s dead easy to use
- it’s got faders
- the sound is just “right”
Interestingly, one could think that Roland may not stick to their classic sounds, and maybe introduce some wildly new, never heard before sounds that could push the envelope a bit further. Right now we’re in safe territory. Further, I see an opportunity for Elektron to take advantage of this and push the envelope by introducing new machines that would really define a new era of electronic music. Let’s see what they got !
Cheers.
Are they paying you commission?
I would buy the TR8 if it could save more than 16 patterns (at least 64 would be nice).
I’d even be more eager to buy the TR8 if knob settings were saved with each pattern.
I’d be extremely excited to buy the TR8 if knob movements could be recorded per pattern; I’d have to have one.
Anyone who argues against the inclusion of these features, claiming they’d somehow detract from the “immediacy” & “simplicity” of the machine perplex me. I just don’t understand what they’re defending.
Anyone (uk) like a real minty boxed physical multi-outs 5v gate pulse tuneable ‘sample’ roland x2x legend, ok not a legend, but increasingly sought after, maybe, hopefully, well … VERY hackable TR-626 - sensible PM if so
i’m with Cenk, it’s a surprise because of the way they marketed it, to me, and it’s a tasty price, for a software enhancement, yes it’s time in development, but it’s still on the high side, but the trade-off is that the unit is sold cheap to begin with, no point moaning about the cost of games for the ps3 when they virtually give it away to you in the first place i guess
blofeld upgrade stung a lot and to be fair it was massively capable before, i prefer closed systems, like A4 e.g
i’d have been tempted if the cr78 and 606 were in the pipeline and free, but as it is the rytm offers me so much more and imo is way better bang for buck as an instrument, but there’s no denying roland made some special iconic things in their past, my GR300 can never be topped, 6 real vco’s and full analogue control with your digits wish i never sold my first drum box the dr110, little did i know it’d be the last roland analogue
I sequenced the TR-8 with the OT. You can parameter lock things like velocity, tuning, decay etc from the OT. Seeing as how their recent update now includes locking accents to individual drums and steps, leads me to believe at some you’ll be able to lock all parameters directly on the TR-8 box.
Just get the midi implementation chart for the TR-8 and off you go. Pretty powerful device when using an external sequencer.
Full disclosure, I sold mine to fund the AR. My biggest complaint about the TR-8 was the size of it. I have a small space and it just didn’t physically fit anywhere. Oh well, maybe if they release a version minus the faders I’d get another.
For me, if it’s not cutting edge new then I won’t buy a brand new unit. The price for every roland unit I’ve seen in the past decade has dropped u at least 25%.
They don’t build units that have a long shelf life for the company. The products are usually well made, it’s just they aren’t supported for long and drop in price so quick.
I say Roland has huge balls to try to charge for upgrades on a box featuring sounds that massively available on the net. Yeh yeh, I get they ebb and flow like an analog in the machine. But really, can’t something similar be done in numerous ways. Hell, I bet that volca sample will give the Tr8 a run for its money.
How so?
I’d buy the Volca sample for $200 AUS before I’d buy an expansion kit of dated sounds for $115 AUS.
I own a TR8 and I love it, but I also think Roland’s “In App Purchase” marketing model sucks massively.
Someone needs to torrent this expansion… I consider it a massive rip off. Happy to take advantage of a company thats as arrogant as I’ve found Roland.
Well you can record variations on the sequencer. It has an analog filter. And it can hold up to 100 samples, which atm is more sounds than the tr8.
However, it’s not as immediately tweakable and it only holds 8 patterns.
I just feel the volca series are more in the spirit of old roland boxes than this Aira line.
To be clear, I think the tr8 (and the whole aira line) sound good. I’d buy one 2nd hand if I had the need and room.
Roland don’t have the right, as a business, to profit from their heritage? Nobody here ever bought into the legacy of Roland?
75 bucks? Really? Is that what we’re crying about here…
You can bash the shit out of them like a goon, or you can wake up and feel the boom-tish
I don’t care if you have to pay for an expansion for additional sound modelling, but I do care that essential functions (via OS updates) are added after release and the end result is a growing number of arbitrary button combinations and power off sequences to get into hidden modes and features.
MachineDrum was almost fully designed from the start and it shows in a well thought out interface, easy to remember button combinations and a screen with lots of feedback information.
Reviewing these types of threads reinforces for me that the MachineDrum is many times more capable than the TR-8. It is reflected in the price and it is reflected in the ease of performing functions. Roland will do well with Aira, but honestly Korg and Elektron have the goods.
B
Fair enough, personally I use the TR-8 as a sound source and do my sequencing via Ableton as I found it to be a more efficient means of composing than using it’s internal sequencer. If I did use the sequencer, it was to record basic loop variations and fills. I do wish that Roland got a clue and added a filter instead of that Scatter bullshit. If they’re going to implement something like that, it should have configurable settings over USB using a utility.
Dated sounds? the entire drum machine is a culmination of dated sounds that are perfectly usable, the 707 and 727 is no exception really - what counts more is the context you use it in.
And no, someone doesn’t need to enable mass theft just because certain individuals consider it a rip off. I can respect the fact that some might consider it not worth the investment, but I also appreciate the fact that Roland at least offers this to people who might be interested - especially considering the expansion enables more capability for tailoring the sounds than the originals ever did.