Totally. It’s subtle most of the time. I think the best digital emulations of analog have randomness programmed in to get that more wild variance in each key press. Take a look at the Prophet-5 videos on the vintage knob (or P6 since it was updated), the way each key press has different filter, envelope and tuning settings is what really makes the synth sound alive compared to digital synths that always give you the same setting every single time. That really opened my eyes to why proper vintage synths have something extra.
Edit: I can mimick these things in Bitwig’s The Grid with random LFOs/chance on near enough everything, tho
I will definitely check that out. I think the “sound” people generally lusting after is not the actual sound generated by the instrument but the imaginative sound of their own end product, which never seems to satisfy them because it only represents a part of it. I have been watching Moog Sub 37 videos as it is on my purchase list if I don’t go broke soon. It sounds great, warm and rich, but it will most likely be more difficult to tame and eq properly so that your song doesn’t become a promo for the synth itself. I think you can basically build up an entire career with Ableton alone, so x vs y debates are most of the time anectodal, but helpful in guiding you in your path.
Careful, it’s a dangerously expensive synth! I badly want one. But that’s for the retirement/inheritance stage(s) of my life. However, seeing the videos made me appreciate what’s special about the classic synths and what’s pleasing to our ears. Then I thought about how to emulate that
Yes I can never justify the price for it. Hope that I have a distant relative I don’t know about, who will leave a solid inheritance to me for no reason.
Got the A4 keys (and Peak & Hydra Keys for ref) and it does take some learning and diving for sure. My votes would be for the Peak.
The Peak has got the more ‘traditional’ layout which might help you from a learning point of view. It sounds amazing and if you’re not a Keys guy it’s ideal (as well as half the price of the Summit). The Hydra is really deep… I don’t know I’d advise it as a first synth. Yeah if you know the basics of synthesis and routing/modulation you should be good. But it’s not as obvious in its layout as the Peak. Better screen tho imo. It’s a bit of a let down in the Peak but it works and is useable…a nice sexy OLED would have been nicer tho! Both synths should have you occupied for a good while but I’d say folks could spend years exploring all the possibilities of the Hydra.
The DeepMind is interesting. I’d like to have a play with one. I’ve heard plenty of good things about it.
Peak and Rev2 are great first hardware synths. I think hydrasynth might be overwhelming. It is pretty unique in a lot of its terminology and is more of a sound designer synth. The Peak and Rev2 are very knobby and pretty straight forward.
Bass Station 2 makes a lot of sense at a lower price (but it seems you are willing to go higher). In which case I’ll suggest a Boomstar. More of a luxury item, but packed with features (even analog ring mod), great sound, knob per function, no menus. And they are hand made in the US (soldered by hand, one by one, like in the 70s), which is pretty cool. But, they do require calibration with a screwdriver, so keep that in mind.
ever played a hardware synth with zero menus and every knob is right in front of you? very different from the A4, and easier to learn and understand for someone new to synths.
but of course one CAN learn on an A4. I just don’t think it’s ideal.
LOL, prior to buying Analog4 I considered every Elektron box, reading every forum post comparing them going in circles before deciding on A4. Was a toss up between that or Rytm. I am still torn between Rytm/Digitakt or Octatrack to pair with it. I don’t know why these Elektron devices are all so maddeningly similar but different it is so difficult to decide between 1 or 2.
I find it very interesting the number of experienced people here advising to learn on a hardware synth with 1 knob/function. It seems like very sound advice. I didn’t have that luxury and jumped straight into the A4.
When I got the A4, I set myself the goal of every day learning a new skill, then creating new grooves and making music. The things I want to do are complicated and make use of the sequencer, parameter locks, arpegiator, multiple LFOs etc… I don’t think a traditional hardware synth would work as well for me. I’m slowly figuring out combinations and knobs to turn to make it all work together. A real synthesizer or keyboard player would probably approach it completely different.
I don’t see why the A4 wouldn’t be a good first HW synth, so long as you have realistic expectations.
I’ve had an AK for a few months, and it’s really quite versatile, but it takes a lot of experimentation to get certain synth flavours out of it. It can do the classics, but it takes time to work out how. If you genuinely love tweaking and learning and deep interfaces and sound design, it’s rewarding.
again I totally think you CAN learn on it. it’s just not my first choice if asked for advice.
it’s like back when the MicroKorg was the synth of choice because it was cheap and easy to find and everyone needed “a bit of synth” in their band. terrible synth to learn on. almost everyone who bought one just used presets.
DM12D and A4 MK1 were both my first two HW polys. I eventually traded the DM for a DFAM. Dont regret it, but thats not to say the DM isn’t good. It’s a great little synth that does especially well with pads. The Omnisphere integration is also pretty cool and works flawlessly. I still have the A4, and even had two once upon a time. I’ll never part with it as the sounds, capabilities, and sequencer are hard to beat at the $600 level that you can usually find the MK1s going for. The 4 part multitimberal is really great, and with some creative sequencing, you can make whole tracks with just it. Either way, I think you’ll be good.
Side note related to “first synths”, I’ve been jamming on my Moog GM alot recently, and if anyone happens to come across one for cheap (got lucky and nabbed mine for $600), I’d say it’s one of the best first HW synths out there. Sure it’s not the cheapest, and is a mono synth with no presets, but what it does great is force the user to do is learn synthesis and what each individual section is capable of and how to achieve the sound you want through patching. It’s also great for sound exploration. Simply a fantastic learning tool, as well as a really awesome sounding synth. I’ve really come to adore mine.
@ist I have a Peak and an OB-6.
Playing with them is a great pleasure, especially with a large keyboard.
But I am not a keyboard player. I mean, I can play for hours on the piano, I do like this, but if I want to craft tracks, I can see that I rely a lot on Elektron sequencer.
If you like crafting evolving loops rather than playing Vangelis style, then A4 is a very good choice. It takes time to really master, but it’s a very rewarding instrument. I don’t think there are other synths with 4 tracks for such price. Some make a whole album with it alone
It’s not a great first HW synth because it doesn’t translate well to the wider world of HW synths, it requires a degree of prior understanding of synths that the OP doesn’t have. You also need an understanding of Elektron workflow… so, as brilliant as the A4 is, it’s definitely not a ‘let’s learn about synths’ synth.
One thing I forgot to mention about the Peak that is a HUGE advantage in learning how to program synths is it’s ease of parameter recall through the screen.
For those who don’t know- any knob that you touch displays it’s parameter setting as you adjust it but also shows the preset setting below. This makes it super simple to recall settings exactly, and you learn how the sounds have been constructed as you do it.
I personally love any gear that does this.
The OP already uses synths, so he is not new to the concept of synthesis etc. Most of the answers are answers to “What should my first synth be” and not to the OP question.
If he is able to focus on sound design in those heavy software synths he names, he doesn’t need hardware to learn about synths. It’s just a different interface.
I really didn’t like the A4. Menu-divey, a lot of programming necessary and not really a gold mine for sweet spots and happy accidents. It can sound great, but that usually took me a lot of work.
For your first hw synth I think it’s important that it’s fun and hands on. So why not a Typhon or a Minilogue (XD)?
Ahah I would say exactly the contrary:
I really like the A4. Not that menu-divey (compared to other powerful synths such as Blofeld, or even Micromonsta), programming is pretty fast once you know where to find your modulations (e.g. dedicated pitch modulation, PWM, etc.), it’s a gold mind for sound design (so many envelope styles !!) and I now often find different sweet spots on the way to a particular sound.
I guess YMMV, to everyone their own experience.
As you can have 2 oscillators with each their own sub oscillators, you can really overcome the 4-voice limitation.
It’s IMO better to consider it as 4 mono tracks, with each being able to steal voices once in a while. I have better results like this.
But for sound design this synth is extremely powerful, especially for crafting percussions: there is all you need in there!
Even if you say you’re not fond of it, you can even go in FM territories and chase metallic timbres with note-following LFOs or (my favorite) AM while tweaking pulse width.
I would agree with this. All main synth parameters are one button press away. Sure there are a ton of other less common settings in the menus but this is also true for most knob per function synths as well. My Sub37 was a bit brutal to get to the deeper parameters.
and as @LyingDalai says it is a sound design powerhouse with a ton of modulation options. There are some handy things like separate vibrato with a fade in/out, that doesn’t eat up your lfo or envelope mod sources. Elektron LFO’s are the shit - I think we are spoiled with there capabilities.
It was my first Elektron - went to the shop to try and buy an OP1 that I had been lusting after for ages. Whilst the guy got an OP1 from the basement, I messed about with the A4. A few mins later I had a 4 track pattern going an loving it. Tried the OP1 and it just didn’t cut it compared to the A4. The thing wasn’t even on my radar. Never looked back and hooked on the Elektron workflow.
