Got you
The fanboy in me just likes to read things like that.
What was the title of your album?
Is there a moral argument to extend IP beyond 20 years? In my opinion if the Curtis estate wants more IP protection, itâs time to create more IP. If the chip were human, it could have college age children or fresh new grandchildren.
Vid below is byLawrence lessig. IP Lawyer
Agreed.
Counterfeit definition:
made in exact imitation of something valuable or important with the intention to deceive or defraud.
They are clones, clearly branded by behringer, with nods to the originals. They also sound really good, like the originals. I would not consider any of these counterfeit because they are not being sold or marketed to be anything that they are not.
Keep in mind that all these Behringer clones really are just circuit-level analogue replicas. You donât get any kind of patch storage or MIDI CC parameter control.
For example, I personally donât see the point of getting an SH-101 replica from Behringer when I can get a SH-01A from Roland that sounds just as much like the real thing, but that also offers a 4 voice poly mode and patch storage and full CC control over all parameters and audio over USB for about the same amount of money.
The same thing with the Pro-One replica; for a little bit more you can get an AS-1 which is essentially a modern day version of the same thing that does include patch storage and MIDI CC parameter control and a bunch of other nice stuff such as some excellent effects. And it even has a âtrue analogueâ signal path if thatâs your thing.
What I think it kinda lame about these replicas is that Behringer has made no attempt whatsoever to bring anything under voltage control, add patch memories, or make at least some parameters controllable over MIDI.
If Korg can do an original analogue monosynth with full patch memories and full MIDI CC control for less than Behringer wants for its Model D clone, than I donât feel that Behringer has made that much of an effort here. Sure, the SE-02 is a bit more expensive, but IMHO much more complete and a much more interesting starting point for a Moogish sound.
I could go on. Iâm sure these replicas are great for a lot of people, but the lack of innovation in terms of control means that itâs not something Iâm terribly interested in.
Behringer already mentioned somewhere that most people are more interested in 1:1 clones of the analog circuits. Adding digital control (for patch saving, midi cc, etc.) could change the sound quite much. Everything on the analog circuit would need to be controlled digitally, so you need to interpolate all the digital to analog conversations.
Or maybe itâs just easier to copy schematics from old service manuals using modern components?
While I kinda agree, I also have to remind that 7-bit CCs should be banned from nuanced analog synths. One of the beauty of âdetune oscs than watâ etc is that there is much greater room for nuance and resolution than what one gets with a (often poorly) interpolated integer value of 1-127. In fact, I hate the fact that the detune knobs on the SE02 are 7bit!
MIDI is cool and all but lets not delude ourself thinking it does not come with its own set of problems.
It doesnât matter how easy it is to copy schematics. It seems thatâs what people want. You can see the excitment all over the internet.
And they add enough new stuff to the devices that isnât changing the original analog circuits (on ms-101 the improved step sequencer, fm modulation, triangle or on rd808 a new step sequencer, filter, shaper, etcâŚ). They are not completely lazy
I never said nobody is or should be excited.
Personally I think once all the hype dies down there will be tons of these Behringer copies on the second hand market, once people who never owned the originals become frustrated with the limitations, and once we start seeing A/B comparisions with originals and modern clones like the Roland Boutiques and boutique manufacturers versions.
Putting Behringerâs business practices and reputation aside for the moment and taking a more pragmatic look at the products shown so far, the Neutron is the most interesting yet it looks hideous, the MS-101 has a keyboard which probably wonât be that great and is it going to be better than the similarly priced Korg Monologue? - doubtful. The design of the Pro One looks the best but that is basically because it looks almost the same as the original minus the keyboard (sensible IMHO) They hired in all this talent and this is the best they can do? (Remember they have huge resources compared to Elektron etc) They want to make âclonesâ but using their copies of the original chips, going by how their BBD chips sound compared to the original chips which they copied, I donât think anyone would say they are very good at cloning. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out in a few years time.
I love vintage gear, but I have got rid of most of mine now, I prefer modern stuff which can cover the same ground and do more, be more easily controlled and I donât want some huge one trick pony taking up valuable space, but obviously Iâm not Behringerâs target market
I like what Behringer is doing. Itâs a great thing. I mean, Iâd like to have a Moog as much as the next guy, but Iâm certainly not willing to pay $4000 for it, considering what it does. Think about it, thatâs about the same amount of money as the price of a Waldorf Quantum or a DSI Prophet X. Crazy amount of money, and a Moog just isnât useful enough to warrant that kind of money. Hell, Iâm not even sure the Quantum and the Prophet X are, but at least they cover a HUGE spectrum of possibilities.
Now $300 bucks on the other hand, thatâs a different story. I might be willing to spend that to get that Moog sound in a song here and there. But $4000? That seems like usury and fleecing to me.
The boutiques sound great but a little static in comparison to the og and if Behringer can get closer in that sense then itâs a win.
Youâd have to give up almost all of the electronic goods in your possession, TV, Mobile phone, white goodsâŚsurely including the Roland Boutiques? which are all made in China and other countries with lower manufacturing costs. Not to mention clothing & footwear by most of the brands sold in the UK. Once you have done all that, then you can take the moral high ground
It is a myth that the Boutiques sound static, Iâd agree that some are more successful at emulating their counterparts than others though.
To clarify I have no problem with goods made in China, never have and never said that I have, I get stuff made there so it would make me a bit of a hypocrite wouldnât it?
When I mentioned Behringerâs business practices I was talking about their âcopyingâ an in production classic chip rather than buying it from the small company that makes it, their past form with trying to dominate markets by offering inferior cut price lookalikes, their employment track record, and so on.
If thatâs only what youâre interested in, then you can already do so easier and for a lot less money by using NI Monark, Arturia Mini V, or arguably even u-he Diva.
The Minimoog Model D remake from Moog is for people who want to own an original, for whatever reason.
Well, Iâd just rather have a hardware synth. I already own the Arturia Suite, so itâs not a problem. However, for $300 bucks, I think itâd make a nice addition to my hardware line-up.
300? Bah, im buying my boog D second hand for 200
Or trade one for a volca keys
Exactly, moog stuff is assembled by hand, company is owned by employees, and you get the sense that moog employees love what they do, a bit different from some mass produced cashing in knockoff made solely to exploit the fact that moog gear is expensive because of those reasons.
Furthermore, isnât the moog model D through hole? So its actually repairable by mere mortals, unlike the SMD versions? I can see merit in that, if only for keyboard virtuosos playing in succesful world-touring bands. Or keyboardists of the caped variety.
That works too.
I donât care if itâs assembled by hand, or if the employees love the product, etc. In fact, humans make mistakes, and Iâd feel much better if it were assembled by robots. Bottom line: I only care about what it sounds like.