If I were Uli I’d try and avoid getting into bed with the person who wrote that letter full stop, Robin saw the potential for a full ride to comfortable retirement and was looking for the big payout. Yikes, IMO. Anyway, that’s my 2 cents on this part of the 303 saga!
7 Likes
uli tried to lowball him. Robin came back with unrealistic demands / possible trolling.
If you put yourself in uli’s shoes reading Robins demands most people would tell Robin to F-off given the tone in his response.
I think they both come off badly. 
1 Like
Exactly. Uli offered something insanely rude for PR, the reply was high (for B) but this is basic negotiation. If the initial offer is disrespectfully low, a person is going to jump up and it was up to the people with power to offer something higher than before.
Behringer wasn’t sincere, and the “both sides are wrong” aren’t acting in good faith either.
1 Like
There’s ‘going high’ and there’s ‘going stratospheric’.
300k a year for a little bit of one off design work is straight up absurd and the tone of the email was unprofessional bordering on unhinged.
7 Likes
Keep in mind that was arrangement option B. Arrangement A was (hypothetically) $45 per unit.
In any case that’s what he feels is the value of his work. Call it ridiculous all you want, that does not give anybody the right to take the work as their own.
I would love an original Hockney. But im not going to go steal one and a forgery is a forgery.
1 Like
He wasn’t being offered a job.
2 Likes
IMO what Robin asked is not some kind of retirement money. It’s a cut on the sells.
And 300€ a 303 with Devil Fish mods would indeed sell pretty well. Moreover, Robin’s offer was more than just put a brand on a TD-3, it’s an offer to collaborate and make the ultimate 303.
His cut is rather high, I admit.
But it’s a pity B didn’t make a counter proposition, for he would still have made quite some money with such a product, and change his image from working with little synth maker to build a high quality synth.
5 Likes
Someone at Roland should call Robin and propose a Roland Boutique Designer Series TB-03 DevilFish edition…
4 Likes
as outlined in the link above, it was the equivalent of ~7k units sold a year at the price/royalty rate he was outlining. and was proposed as an alternative to going the royalty route; if B thought they’d sell a ton of 'em, 300k/yr to him could be cheaper.
it was proposed by B to be a collaboration/partnership. complete with DF logo on the unit. it seems like it was more of B just being like “give us your circuit, here’s some peanuts so we can claim we worked with you.”
I agree it was a very aggressive opening offer. and off-base even if he were being hired as a full-time engineer there. that said, he was effectively licensing out 25 years of his creation/knowledge, and cutting into his own future mod work.
2 Likes
why would people back manufacturers that charge as much as they can ? jus can’t get it.
They are ripping us off for years.
Uli is worikng with low margins bussines model and passing the saving on to end user - us.
I’m all in for something like that.
5 Likes
a happy medium would be nice 
4 Likes
To everyone stating how aggressive the offer is, or what a slap in the face it is, or how insulting it is, etc, how did you come by the information showing how much profit B is making on each TD-3 unit? Uli has stated that the margins are razor thin, and we have no idea how 15k relates to the amount of profit they’ve made so far on this product. No one has considered that Uli was legitimately coming in with his best offer. I’m not saying that’s true, but there are some assumptions being made in this thread that have no basis in fact or known information.
1 Like
to me, a slap in the face is saying "let’s charge them twice as much, they’ll buy it anyway… "
8 Likes
OK… so at $150 the “margin is razor thin.” B says the DF mod adds $3 in parts. so at $300 they’d make $147 more per unit. if they give RWI $45 they’re still making $102 per unit plus whatever they previously made.
I think there’s some wiggle room there.
That’s the point though, that’s not the Behringer business model, they determine final price after BOM is known and they’ve negotiated with all parties involved after initial preorder numbers. They don’t base price on “what will people pay at maximum” or “what max price will the market bear,” etc.
3 Likes
Because I like them to spend money on research, design, and development of new products rather than copying products from other manufacturers.
4 Likes
That’s what they say they do. Doesn’t mean that’s what they actually do.
That’s what they say they do. Doesn’t mean that’s what they actually do.
right, and I think that’s one of the issues with them really: that approach devalues their product and everyone else’s. but that’s another discussion…
when I said there’s wiggle room, I meant there clearly seems like a middle ground where RWI and B could’ve both been happy. but it’s supposed to be a partnership. if you don’t expect the other party is going to have some demands if they’re to put their name on it, why even ask?