Bi-weekly record-diving sampling extravaganza | 04 | The New Birth - Blind Baby

The Lounge Mission Briefs
#62

So, this is exactly the perfect example!

That bit in “Ain’t no Sunshine” is not really a repetition, it’s an absolute masterwork of subtle vocal technique. Every single time the “I know” is repeated there are subtle changes in inflection, intensity and rhythm which build to a really satisfying crescendo.

That’s the meaning of the Trevor Horn quote (and he’s talking about early sequencer productions like “Two Tribes” and “Relax” which are super repetitive) essentially something should always be evolving and changing even if one bar is seemingly very much like another.

If you just sampled the first “I know” from the Bill Withers and played it 26 times it would sound awful and boring. A better producer than I am would add some clever automation to add some drive, volume, filter, modulation, or maybe a riser, or something which would give the same effect of building.

I was puzzling over how I love Bicep so much, but if I try and reproduce their sparse repetitive style I find my own tracks boring and stuck in an 8 bar loop. Then I saw a breakdown of one of their tracks on YouTube and you realise that nothing is static all of the parts are constantly subtly evolving in ways which are very satisfying even if they are only barely perceptible. That’s where I’d like to be.

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#63

I can’t tell how valuable feedback like this is.

Quick question. @1-2 and @natehorn

What’s your turn around on making a track?

You both are putting up multiple tracks a week.

Im mentioned below that I’m putting up something out every other day when I’m not doing school work.

I could put more time into them, but I rather move on to making something new, looking for that lightning in a bottle.

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#64

You know, I’m at the point in production where I mute parts of an arrangement while in the various versions of song mode across my devices. And I mentioned how overwhelming it gets keeping the parts ordered, and remembering which part to go to that I set up 3-4 parts back.

I think even with all that juggling, you can hear the repetition over the track and it sounds lazy, even though it’s very much not.

I think maybe I need to really start figuring out variations on parts a bit more, and work on A/Bing parts.

The only thing is that whenever I post here, I’m fatigued by my own track and really just want to move on from it, no matter the state it’s in.

Then it’s exactly the same every time. Day 1 “it’s the best thing ever, I can’t believe I can make music”…. Day 2 “Holy shit, that’s trash… how can I even think that’s music”. To finally day 3 “you know, it’s actually not that bad… not great, but not bad”

I’m relying on the fact that Im farming experience through habitual production by spitting out a track every other day, and the incremental improvements that come with it.

Plus, not to be a dick, but I listen to what a lot of people put out and it’s not always better than what I put out, so I know I’m somewhere nestled in the middle of a bell curve of musical ability.

Plus, we are in a bubble in this community. How many people truly make music on a regular basis, for the sheer madness of it?

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#65

I’ll complete a track in 1 or 2 sessions, maybe 6 hours total tops.

Like yourself if I have to work on something for too long then I’ll fatigue on it, and I think you can lose objectivity a bit too.

That said my ‘good’ tracks are the ones I can listen to over and over. If I listen to a track I made yesterday and it’s already grating on me then I consider that a bad sign.

I’d say if you’re consistently finding that the second day you work on the music you don’t like it then you may have been more attracted to the novelty of what you’d created - rather than the sheer musicality of it, which can where off quickly. Sometimes a simple melody can hook me, and its only hours later that I realise I don’t really like it very much.

Maybe try experimenting more during this phase and avoid focussing on one idea, bring a selection of ideas to the table the next day - maybe something will standout as something you want to move forward with?

But definitely don’t hit your head against a wall. If you get bored or stop liking it then move on. Or get it recorded, chucked out, and then move on. Either way don’t get bogged down in music you’re not jiving with.

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#66

Bicep are amazing - one of my favs!

I try to learn lessons from them myself - they’re one of the main reasons I have a Zen Delay :sweat_smile: The whole breakbeat/garage + ethnic vocal flavour is something I dig.

They use a pair of SH-01’s which are really good for this too, I have a 303 module which I use in a similar way - but being able to feed different accent’s in and dramatically change the filter modulation can totally reshape a melody. Some synths are better for this than others.

This is something I put a lot of effort into on a techno track I put out at the start of the weekend - it’s about 15 minutes long - just a few melodies but I’m working them all constantly and I think it was a success… (i’d make some changes to the drums if I performed it again but apart from that) constant tonal variation, crescendos and breaks. It’s not always something I get right.

Maybe practice with 1 synth. Subharmonicon is one of my favourites for this, but as long as you have access to a filter and an envelope then you can go for an hour with a good melody :slight_smile:

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#67

What you said aligns perfectly with my rationale. I would argue that I’m so new to production that everything else is experimental at this point.

I like doing what you said… record it and move on. I have so much gear, that I frequently rotate around to another synth and start tackling it to get a sound I like from it, then getting it recorded so I can repeat the process.

I have a very much love/hate relationship with the Subharmonicon. For reference, here is my studio.

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I have all the Moog semi modular synths including 2 DFAMs.

The Subharmonicon is a bit frustrating with the 4 note dual sequencer. I always fight with it until I stumble on pure beauty. It’s so unpredictable that it feels like true exploration. Same for the dfams to a lesser degree.

I just got the Syntakt about a month ago, and I’m addicted to the clicky buttons. But it’s really the control of the sequencer that’s driving my music.

In a couple weeks, I’m going back to the semi modulars and all this talk about finishing tracks becomes moot because I don’t hold myself to form so much when I’m rocking the Moogs. I just twist knobs and record. It’s all so magical that I don’t care about song structure.

That’s why I’m doubling down on these challenges and really trying to arrange for now, because soon I’m going back to the frontier and also, I have to record through a Daw with the Moogs, and I just picked up Shaperbox and all the Soundtoys. So it’s gonna be Logic that I arrange instead of song mode arranging.

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#68

Agreed and good point. Small but significant changes can go a long way. The words themselves a repeating but a little different every time. I think this section wouldn’t be as memorable/ have the same impact if each word was different though.

That is part of what t I meant with extending your tracks, sorry if you thought meant just repeat a loop over and over. I meant your ideas and sound are great, it could live a little longer to my ears, for example put a bridge in and then repeat the first part again but change a few things up, element come in and out, something new over the top, etc. I’d dosent have to be a brand new idea. If it’s got the hook I can hear it longer without getting board, and like you said even subtle changes can go a long way.

You could also close out your short tracks with something to make it feel like it has an end. I wanted to hear more u think part of it is that they felt like they ended abruptly. I could be into that though, lead the people up with something great and then just stop :slight_smile: interesting effect like with the playing with expectations things we were talking about and just make that part of your style

Ha yeah, it seems to work for fatboy slim for example, maybe your not into that though

Don’t get me wrong I love building changes and variations in music, just pointing out some repeating elements are key for most people to consider it ‘music’ are found in almost every form of music and playing with the balance of repitions to comfort the listener to get used to the sound and then breaking that up is usefully. I love the two bar thing in general, great advise, just seeing the potential in you tracks to stretch out further than you might think and don’t be too hard on yourself to feel they get stale too quickly because so far you have always left me wanting to hear more. Nice job

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#69

That was me recently, good way to get things going. I’ve been trying to break out of that more and it wasn’t easy. This might be obvious but if you try to keep things in the same general area ie kick on track1 snare 2 bass on 5 etc it is way easier to remember

Good way to go, dedication can sometimes take you farther than ‘natural ability’

Keep in mind even though there are technical sides to music it is art and highly subjective. It is not a competition, and these things can be hard to gauge anyway. I certainly hope you like the music you make, otherwise why make it, and you get to decide the sound you like and want to have. I think compete with yourself, outdo what you have done before as a true gauge of musical improvement. Gauging your skill against other people’s music you like is not completely useless I think, just a lot of relativity

Thing about the curve is it feels good to get past the first hump, satisfying and you stop dobuting yourself so much, having the ability to do more than you thought you might.

Not saying this is you or trying to be any certain way but don’t underestimate the dunning Kruger curve either
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Ha yes I go though this too and even did with my track this round

Sounds like a mini 3 day version of the dunning Kruger effect making our tracks

I had this happen this time around too. I think it was because I waited till the last minute to finish my track and had to make myself finish it, I wanted to make the deadline and get something out. Getting tracks completed has been a small goal of mine, even if I’m not fully happy with them.

I agree with nate’s advice on this, tracks you have to force work often aren’t as good as the ones that come together easy and natural and catch you right away. It can be good to push through but sometimes you just know what will or won’t work for you so trust that instinct.

Depends on your goals, I would just jam it out on something simple for a long time and love doing it, never recording anything. A lot of different aspects to music and I can enjoy the process more than the results. Not so much when trying to get the details right on finishing a track. I have enjoyed learning that side a little more, but you don’t want to burn yourself out and these things take time to settle into

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#70

Great reply.

I’m usually good with drum tracks, the set up is how I stack variations of drum parts. It comes from my days learning on the TR8S…

It has A-H 1 bar variations. So I tend to do ABAC then ABEC AFCH and so on. But in the middle of a song it gets hard to remember if I used A or E or something.

Like a call and response.

I absolutely love the Dunning Kruger effect.

I purposely try to stay naïve as long as possible so I can relish in the enthusiasm. But things took a turn with me coming on this forum. I know it’s fun and games, but there are serious musicians on here putting out bangers. I want to put out work that gets noticed by my peers.

Plus, I’ve invested thousands on all the gear I own. No compromise. All Roland, Moog, and a Sequential Prophet 6. I even maxed out a Focusrite 18i20, and had to get a Behringer ADAT expansion. It deserves my best attempts to get better.

Shit, YOU GUYS deserve my attempts to get better.

I am very lucky to have found music at this stage of life. I now have something that’s slightly out of reach to strive for. I’m here for the journey.

You were saying you were trying to get out of muting parts? What techniques do you do for variation now?

That’s the problem with hardware, especially the Syntakt. It’s mostly 16 tracks, and sometimes a variation can eat up 2 bars if you want to lead into it or do a call and response.

Also, in a couple weeks, I’m going back to using the semi modular I have. I’ve just been busy with school and don’t have the hours I lose jamming. I do record some of these, but the good in the jam sometimes is so slight compared to all the noise around it.

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#71

Not sure on tr8s but you maybe you could midi sequence the program changes, not sure if you can do that between bars a-h but it sould work between patterns

Some of the people making bangers on here probably have a lot of experience, maybe that’s why you see them as serious musicians. That’s one reason comparisons can be hard, you can hear the results but you don’t know what it took for them to get there. Just keep at it, you seem to have the drive and that makes all the difference

You definitely have a real nice setup, I think that can give you extra motivation to push yourself and get the most out of it, but could also make someone feel pressure for not using the gear to its potential

I think it’s geat you found the joy in music and one nice thing about it is you can get started at any age. I didn’t make music when I was younger and later I just decided to get into it and have been on off with it a little but hooked ever since then. There is always something new to learn, try, and enjoy it’s beautifuly endless. Alot of people seem reluctant to pick up something new if they didn’t get in the habit of it at a young age, especially something like music which can make you feel vulnerable

For varations, especially with elektrons I have been doing alot of copy pasting of paterns modify it a little and then copy that over change it more and so on - adding a few new elements over time. Then a new pattern from scratch for change ups every once in a while and repeat the process. Copying pages of seq steps can be usefull too, like the a b a c thing, or starting with one bar then extending it and make a change on bar 4 for example can save time

For the jamming, if you recorded it sampling the best parts and working with those can be usefull. When jamming alone or especially with other people I find the first ten minutes or so aren’t so great but then after a bit you get in the zone and things start to click

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#72

I was going to say something exactly like this!

I’m in a lot of ways, it feels like to make music, you gotta be an audio athlete.

Thank you for all the input. No one at school is into music since I’m taking digital art classes. The only reason I bought everything so fast, because I was trying to beat inflation and the chip shortage made me worry. Plus it’s so sexy to look at it every time I walk into the kitchen.

But damn, I’m rockin the Syntakt so hard right now. I love the buttons and the sequencing. I mentioned elsewhere, I just midisynced my MC101 to it. Using three channels and I’m diving into the classic synth sounds paired with the Syntakt drums, which are downright nasty.

Trying to make some drum and bass.

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#73

This thread has more value than a Charlie Puth course.

There’s an excellent thread you should check out @BLKrbbt

I added this to that thread, which your comment reminded me of @1-2 - some words here that I think can be good to remind us of (it’s taken from a video essay)

Perfectionism is not something to aspire to, it’s a disease that kills creativity. When you’re afraid of starting something for fear of its potential theoretical inadequacy the concern isn’t for bad art existing the concern is what you’re making means about you. You want to be the person that’s good at art you want to be a genius because you’re so special you’re like a first-born four-leaf unicorn next in line for the throne - essentially you care more about your pride than you care about the art - that’s not gonna prime a productive creative process that’s going to prime you bending over backwards to satiate your insecurities which you will never succeed in doing don’t try to satisfy your insecurities by trying to be perfect that’s like trying to cure an infection by crying don’t negotiate with terrorists your ego is a terrorist. When your fear of creating something stupid or bad prevents you from creating it you’re not serving anyone but your own feelings because everyone makes stupid and bad things that’s how you make good things everybody who’s blocked they’re committing the cardinal sin of assuming their job is to make something good.

– CJ The X, The Dialectics of Rick & Morty

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#74

Btw I chucked this in the currently listening thread the other day, not sure if you’d seen it, latest release. Absolute masters. Proper UK garage vibe :ok_hand:

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#75

That’s a really lovely setup!

I do everything on the sofa which can be a bit limiting especially if you want to use more than one box at a time.

I’d love to get a dedicated space.

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#76

Absolutely love it and the B side “Waterfall” as well!

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#77

Thank you!

I sacrificed my kitchen into a dedicated studio space.

#78

well shit, I was really hoping to post up a recording, unfortately my Heat keeps getting dropped from Ableton.
updated Ableton, Overbridge, and Heat, but its still dropping.

ill keep tryin though, hopefully I can figure this out

#79

When does challenge 5 start?

I’ve just bought a bunch of Black Friday VSTs and I’ve got itchy fingers!

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#80

Going to apologize beforehand for being late on responding and only sending love, just came back today to realize the following was saved as a draft :older_man:

@1-2 AIIIIIIIIIIIIITE MAN!!! That was awesome to hear vocal samples on this voyage! That switch around 1:50 mark is so damn funky, and I really enjoyed the mood :beers:

Also, that time stretch effect that you picked up can be achieved with adjusting bpm (with absolutely no regard to any solid concepts or theories of bpm matching) in each track’s AED mode on the FX1 one slot submenu with some additional rate tweaks on SRC page, and some delay fiddling too.

This is an inception quote sort of, but I agree with both of you guys @1-2 and @BLKrbbt. That same freedom of thought allows for the ideas to pour out more organically, and it still remains a reflection of what the artist feels in their life through the track.

@protrusion THAT WAS AWESOME!! Really enjoyed your use of the baby sample on the intro :ok_hand: Why do you guys keep cutting your beats so short?! I literally have a vinyl on my wall to inspire me for this purpose and it’s a reggae album by an artist called Jimmy Cliff called “Give the People What They Want.” WE NEED MORE! :innocent:

Also, @BLKrbbt what’s your address bro, I’m omw with the :beers: Dope setup man!

@natehorn this was a fantastic quote to read thanks for sharing!

That perfection bug is annoying, and always rears it’s head in my workflow whenever I think I’ve gotten rid of it. My art teacher in high school used to make our whole class say out loud “Practice makes better,” instead of the more commonly known perfect variation.

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#81

@protrusion @1-2

I’m really sorry both I somehow missed your tracks entirely!! I’ll give them a good listen a bit later :ok_hand::ok_hand:

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