Business practices [compilation topic]

The Lounge General Discussion
#67

Hello Friends and Elektron Gods…

I come in Peace.

I am selling all my Elektron gear since the recent MKII drops have got me spooked.

(Please keep all age old comments about obsolescence and the upgrade world to yourselves. We get it.)

The only thing I came hear to ask for is a New way to prepare customers and long time Elektronusers for new product releases. There has to be a way, and I politely request on my behalf as well as any other positive people who agree with this, for Elektron to find a way.

I don’t need loyal dudes to feel the need to come to Elektrons defense, I am a most loyal dude and still feel very strongly about this, There simply has to be a way to give customers a chance/heads up to not lose out on purchasing something today that tomorrow will have to be resold only to lose money/time being forced to upgrade. This applies just as much to legacy boxes as it does to recent releases.

The only moderately negative thing I can say is why not get products right as you can the first time, don’t flood the market with half baked mki’s. I really tried to sell some friends on the basicness of Digitakt but they feared its workflow still.

Cirklon was made by one man and his loyal wife… They hold there price well and sell for more second hand.

Please and Thank you.

I love the new MKII style boxes, and I am mostly curious if the Monomachine or Machinedrum will get an upgrade into this new era…

I can’t at all imagine how this kind of honesty and straight forward relationship with customers would backfire, especially with products you no longer sell.

Hope my sentiments are understood, and if not I will disappear back into my peaceful place.

Very Much Appreciated

[Mod Edit: This frozen @MASTERFADER account can’t receive replies, tag @Semitone instead, same user]

3 Likes
#68

What we are looking at here is the way business is run nowadays.
This is nothing that makes me too happy as you can see it almost everywhere.
Of course business was always made to make money but somehow the strategies have changed and not for the better.

The consumers have power but they don’t use it.
Not buying something would be the most aggressive move.
But it seems and yes I am one of them: “they are buying it anyway”

I have an old Dual 701 record player that costed a fortune in the early 70ies…
This thing is build like a tank, no wonder it runs today as well as more than 40 years ago…
There is not one chance Dual could have released an unfinished product and get through with this.
Updatable firmware is hell as it enables the companies to release crap and let it grow in the hand of the customer.
Then they are enabling some features that sould have been available from on day one and the customer is happy again… Sounds to simple? I do not think so.

So what you are doing is just right. You have the nerve and courage to abandon a company that is selling
a) unfinished products
b) newer products without giving notice and by that making old customers angry

I do not like that kind of company moral at all…

I wish it would be different as I really like stuff like the MnM and MD or the OT and I am aware that those as well as the others were growing and getting more stable and better in the hands of the customer, they were also released as unfinished products…

I want a better world :slight_smile:

6 Likes
#69

Yes… There must be a way to share progress or direction.

Dropping new stuff as a surprise obviously has gotten old, and irritated or lost some customers.

Seconded

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#70

I know it’s likely to be a smaller scale than an Elektron machine, but I feel chasebliss is doing a good job atm with pushing their product lines forward. So far they have released mkii versions of a few pedals but more recently they have been approaching the advancements as “mods” and upgrading what they have in circulation if past customers want to spend the $$. They also seem to stick to industry release dates (NAMM is a deluge of releases in the guitar world) so you can typically expect something around then. They also drop little hints in video series that they do about what’s to come or what is on Joel’s mind.

Giving out a road map just doesn’t work for anything public. It sets a company up for failure to meet a timeline or promise. It adds to their stress and I’d claim it forces downward pressure on overall quality. You can see it all over this forum, many users take something said in a video pre production and hold it as the truth to be.

However, Elektron have now set a precedent with mkii models. To me the Digitakt spelled it out on the wall. All the rnd for parts and manufacturing where paid for by the new product… It would have been silly not to update their trinity, refresh the products and give them more time and resources for what is next.

1 Like
#71

Also, as far as I understand. Elektron has offered these kinds of hardware modes with the UW and +drive advancements. I’m new to Elektron but kind of enjoy reading a company’s history; let me know if I’m wrong here.

1 Like
#72

Cry me a river.
Elektron owes you nothing!
And both my a4 and octatrack still work fine regardless of mk2s!
The onlything you acheived is whine and make some second hand buyers happy! Congrats.

17 Likes
#73

I think this all depends on your personal philosophy regarding gear and so forth. For some people this move from Elektron is perfectly normal and expected - for others its like an affront to their sensibilities.

There is no applicable universal attitude in this. Its all personally relative to your particular outlook. Therefore the only thing you can do is act or react accordingly to that. Just follow your own dharma.

#74

When I saw the email about the MKIIs I was feeling the same way.

Then I had to remember that the MachineDrum went through the same life cycle so, the writing was on the wall. As far as I know MachineDrum MkI did not sample either.

This one hurts a bit more since they have changed the form factor which hurts the resale value of the MKIs even more.

What I realized was that this is Elektron’s product life cycle since before I preordered the OT. I just didn’t see it, or notice it because I was buying into the next gen.

I’m not sure where to go from here, I was thinking that I may just skip Elektron from here on out but I just love their machines.
and before anyone tells me that my machines are just fine the way they are, I agree, I don’t lust after the new machines really… I have an OT for sampling, I have an AK for external outs per voice, I don’t need CV input really. I don’t use OverBridge. I don’t really care about the screen.

My biggest concern is that these things are investments as well as instruments, and while I do not expect to make money, I also do not expect to lose so much money over such a small amount of time.

The Ak is a good example: they released something at 1850.00. I bought it with confidence because I found it useful, but then to slash the cost in order to try to recoup some of the R&D just… hurt.

I guess my being bitter is because of the idea of an “MKII.”

Not many companies are doing this. But it is the elektron way, I just didn’t see it coming and I should of.

A different product is one thing… A new machine doesn’t exactly make the existing product line lose such value.

So, now comes the question… Do I keep investing in machines that will lose a ton of value as soon as they MKII it?

edit: I guess the answer from me from here on out is that when Elektron releases a product I’ll wait for the MKII + before I buy it.

These are 1500-1800 dollar products, they shouldn’t be loosing 1/3 of their value over 2 years time and they damn sure shouldn’t cut the cost of the brand new product by 400 in it’s first year.

2 Likes
#75

Don’t mean to stir the pot or come across as a fanboi here but yeah, I pretty much agree with this.

What we’re seeing from many is very similar to attitudes within the mobile phone market (for example). It’s not Elektron’s fault that people just have to have the latest version of something.

For those with MkI’s - and even those who bought into them very recently - you have lost nothing in real terms. These units can, and will continue tom work absolutely fine. Their OS’s are mature. And I’m sorry, I just don’t agree with the whole “investment” argument. The 2nd hand market is not Elektron’s responsibility.

I do want to see some open and honest chat around Overbridge. I’d love to get an inkling/tease on what may be coming next (like Uli did on Gearslutz). But, in terms of firm product releases I just don’t see the problem with the MkII’s other than with the well trodden opinions around design philosophy and how this fits a “masterplan”.

9 Likes
#76

There is nothing half-baked about the MK1’s (the ‘originals’) for me they are amazing versatile, great sounding and lost of fun- nothing has changed. The Monomachine and Machinedrum are the same, and still trade for high process on ebay considering they are discontinued!

The A4 was released December 2012…its was due an update(and it isn’t a very big update at that). They will sound pretty much the same. I have had my A4 and RYTM for a few years (and just picked up a MK1 OT) and have probably mastered about 20% of what they can do, I feel no need at all to upgrade and have no FOMO!

3 Likes
#77

Then why not release an A6?
Or a 4 voice analog/digital synth.

Why release the same box with a few little upgrades and a big cosmetic upgrade?

Why not make something new?

The answer is simple, it is to generate income with little innovation; It’s fine; It’s business. But it still means that the investment that I made in these products has lost a large amount of it’s monetary value over night. - It means that in my mind Elektron products are a volatile investment.

(again, I was never trying to make money, but you hope that anything that you spend this kind of money on has a reasonable value in the case that you needed to recoup your investment)

1 Like
#78

Actually I do believe it’s a major factor to stay mk1.

Investment = risk for making money = can’t blame house market failing in your hands when it does.

Electronics are really not good investments and IMHO should not considered as such.
If you have money concerns, buying second hand is the way, Elektron machines are solid and resale value stays strong.

2 Likes
#79

Does every movie need a sequel? No, but there are some enjoyable sequels. :wink:

That being said, no franchises please Elektron!

#80

Funny, I bought my black boxes to make music on, they’re still working great, can wait to get back home actually.

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#81

For those concerned about investments depreciating, buy second hand.

Those who want the latest and greatest have to accept the risk that something better comes out next day.

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#82

Cant help but think of this bit

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#83

I tested out my MKI boxes… they don’t seem to be affected by the fact that the MKII devices have been announced. They aren’t “spooked”.

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#84

I just bought a Juno 6 and no even a year later they release the Juno 60, SELLING ALL MY ROLANDS.

I paid over $2000 for a Wavestation and now a year later they fix all the problems and put out the Wavestation EX, NEVER AGAIN KORG

I paid an arm and a leg for this brand new Akai s-900 and two years later they release the s-950, AKAI, I HAVE NO SON

15 Likes
#85

The thought of selling my MKI machines has/ will never crossed my mind. I saved up for a long time, knowing exactly what I was buying from watching Dataline & Cuckoo’s in depth videos. They have become an integral part of my setup and sanity.

Each hold creative value unlike any other machine I own. Everytime I switch them on it’s a guaranteed good session!

New revisions may lower the monitory value, but please don’t forget why you bought the instrument in the first place.

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#87

I… Must… Resist… Posting… The… Obvious…

:3lektron::heat:

2 Likes