I don’t even think this is ambiguous - if you want to use something, anything, commercially, you need a license to do so. That license can be Public Domain, Creative Commons, “Dave’s Special Do What You Want With My Stuff License”
But if you’re just using some stuff that someone handed you with no contractual terms then it’s clear that no business arrangement is in place.
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I feel like nuance is being lost here. What they prohibit is you recording and repackaging their instruments as a product in its own right. i.e. Elektron couldn’t have a 1600 sample Omnisphere VST clone on one of their boxes. At least in theory.
You can’t protect the sound made by two square waves going through a ladder filter - you can sample from an instrument all day long and sell your wicked sound design - what you can’t do is repackage a preset as a sample pack and sell it as such, i.e. ‘Omnisphere Init Patch Sample Bundle’ - because that’s philosophically the same as you, say, downloading another sample pack and reuploading it with your own artwork. They’re already selling those sounds, you’re reselling them. That preset (as a complete work) is the intellectual property of its creator.
However beyond the trademark violation which manufacturers easily move around by having patches called things like “MOAG” there’s really not a great deal to ‘protect’, as you could recreate the sound yourself using another synth anyway and sample that instead.
My take is that most of us are hobbyists anyway so it doesn’t really matter.
And for those that sell their music professionally and still get burned, maybe they should start reading the contracts they agree to. I think a bit of of self responsibility is expected from a professional.
I think overall @johnbitwig’s summary is spot on for most things.
I want to add that even though drum samples are technically copyrighted, that copyright is impossible to enforce. Any non-linear processing could make your drum samples look like a million others. It would be very hard to prove in court which one was actually used.
The sheer volume of drum samples available on this planet makes this an impossible task.
Since there are already many long posts here, I put my reactions under the little arrow.
That is what I said.
Of course not, cause that also means a breach of contract with said platform. It’s basically a double violation, you have to ignore at least two agreements to get to this point.
That’s what I said, I already adressed the sample part which of course doesn’t have this freedom of use.
That is nice to know and a good solution, although 30% seems steep.
Never heard of that, and it seems completely unenforceable.
There is no way to prove that I didn’t start from scratch if there are no samples involved.
The wavetable may be copyrighted, but a synth will never output the whole wavetable in a way that it can be copied in it’s original form. Not in normal use anyway.
You can definitely sample wavetable synths without legal issues. Unless it’s a preset of course, but I think we all agree on that.
Of course you can’t just copy your Serum wavetable folder and call it a day, because those are the actual samples.
That’s what I was talking about, solo productions. Your BeatStars hypothetical is the same as the first one, it’s a double breach of contract.
What are you saying here? If you don’t use samples you can still get sued over your samples? I’m probably misunderstanding this.
Those claims may be annoying, but if there’s no follow through they have no merit and should get reversed.
If the work is heavily based on loops or samples that already have their own copyright, that copyright claim would have no standing. You can’t copyright what’s already copyrighted.
A Youtube copyright claim is a notice before legal action, if you’re not willing to defend your claim in court it’ll get reversed because you didn’t provide evidence of your claim. The Youtube claim is just to protect Youtube, not the creator.
The information from Spectrasonics contradicts itself then, and they risk losing that argument in court. Spectrasonics - Knowledgebase
Am I allowed to distribute music samples I’ve made using the factorylibraries in my Spectrasonics Instruments?
Yes, you can distribute your music however you like. This includes any and all types of music distribution as audio files, whether presented in mixes, multitracks or stems. The only exception is if these audio files are to be embedded in other software or hardware, which would require clearance with us.
Do you understand the spirit of a creative commons license? Imagine a water pump, out in the desert. Attached to it is a sign telling you to take all the water you want but forbidding you to sell any of the water. Obviously the work of some Commie!
I think you should save your f*** you very much comments for The Man, not to those who work to guarantee that some things remain free.
it’s both true and irrelevant in the context of @potatoson:
If a youtuber likes your track and pays you to make custom music for them, they use it, and their video gets a copyright strike, they’ll never work with you again.
At this point damage is already done, trust is already gone.
I agree that it can result in a bad experience, especially when you’re trying to build a business and you’ve just sold your first tracks.
But realistically this should only happen to you once or twice before you start checking your licenses.
And I would say that when it comes to Youtube, it is public knowledge by now that they are particularly harsh on this subject. If you don’t like that, or this keeps happening to you unfairly, there are other platforms which handle these things differently that’ll happily host your content.
Don’t forget, while your risk is losing a client and some future work, Youtube takes the risk of a lawsuit by uploading your videos on to their platform no questions asked.
I’m not entirely sure but it sounds like Polyend’s houserule puts a strain / a halt on your artistic-creative endeavours while using the Polyend Tracker with its factory content.
You can not use the sounds “in a vacuum”. You can use the sounds when mixed with other sounds. At least that’s what I’m understanding. You also can not sample a Polyend Tracker factory kickdrum in your Akai sampler and sequence it with the Polyend Tracker.
Mindblowing nonsense….
Especially considering its origin lays with breakbeat-jungle-IDM-breakcore artists. Who never really gave a flying fuck about ripping breaks or using cracked software.
Some of the factory content actually was created by those same artists. It’s ridiculous, offensive and highly hypocritical.
Taken from the official Polyend website:
“ All Rights not expressly granted to the user are reserved. The Sounds samples contained on the SD card of Polyend Tracker are licensed, not sold, to you to be reproduced within your original musical compositions only. All copying, lending, duplicating, re-selling or trading of this product or its content is strictly prohibited. The Licensee may use the Sounds in combination with other sounds in music productions (which include soundtracks such as films, video productions, radio/TV programs or commercials, computer games and multimedia presentations, library music, public performances, and other reasonable musical purposes within musical compositions). The Licensee MAY NOT use the Sounds in isolation as Sound effects (i.e. a sequence of musical events) or within any competitive products that are sold or relicensed to multiple third parties. In these scenarios, the Licensee must arrange an extension with Polyend Sp. z o.o. “
Luckily this is an exception and people can use most other factory sound libraries however they please
When I’m feeling creative, the last thing I want to do is interpret legal language.
Would one trig from one hi-hat sample from an external source remove me from that vacuum? I don’t know where the line is. What does “reasonable “ mean, I don’t know. Why even bother. It’s easier to delete the content and move on with no strings attached.
You don’t really have to interpret it though, it’s not asking anything unreasonable of you.
It’s saying you can use the sounds all you like when you’re making music with them, which is what you intend to do - you just can’t sell the sounds.
I mean the same rules apply when you buy a multi-pack of monster munch you can enjoy them as a crisp-salad all you like but they are not to be sold individually.
Yes, and I also never use factory content. Mostly remove it altogether with a few exceptions, that is the way we work.
But some people use them and that is a 100% valid way of working. And those perhaps purchase something like the Polyend Tracker with the assumption (which is based on past experience with other gear) that there is large collection of sounds ready to be played with freely. Only to be dissapointed after reading burried company’s houserules
You’re reading far too much into legalese that’s there to cover quite basic IP protection - Polyend aren’t taking you to court if you only use one sample in your track - it’s neither the spirit nor the intent of the statement.
You have intentionally ommitted the surrounding context, so I’ll re-introduce it for you:
The Licensee MAY NOT use the Sounds in isolation as Sound effects (i.e. a sequence of musical events) or within any competitive products that are sold or relicensed to multiple third parties.
You’re getting tripped up over lawyer speak.
Make music with the samples, don’t resell them. It’s honestly not any more complex than that.
That would be an original musical composition, not isolated sound effects.
If I had to guess what the sadist lawyer that wrote this meant it’s that you can’t record and re-sell a sample bank, i.e. C0 D0 E0 F0 G0… etc., especially as it goes on to discuss competing products.
These words aren’t intended for human eyes. Although pointing out to Polyend that their terms could be more human readable isn’t a bad shout at all - as it’s clearly concerning folks unneccessarily.
