Can I sell samples/loops made with Digitone?

haha I agree, I poorly phrased that. As a fellow sound designer I wouldn’t be so cruel :joy:

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I own Omnisphere and I own an Electron Analog Four (to use 2 examples).

When I installed and started Omnisphere, I had to tick a box to say I agreed with their terms etc… However, I ordered and paid for my Analog Four from a UK retailer and started using it the day I received it by simply plugging it in and turning it on. At no point did I ‘agree’ to anything. So surely I can do whatever I like with regards to sampling the factory presets and re-selling them in sample pack? As surely Elektron have not filed for copyright on those sounds?

I have no intention of doing this by the way!! I just like to take a very literal view on things.

I’m with you on this. I just posted here almost the exact same point, and unless the hardware manufacturer has a copyright on the ‘sound’, then surely me as the owner of the synth can do whatever I want with those sounds. I do any way!!

Back to the spirit of the original post/question - I wouldn’t worry about it too much, you can probably only be sued after a long an arduous legal process, and this will be for peanuts. I’m sure Elektron would rather spend their time making great hardware, and perhaps finding a way to make (and sell) a Battery Power Handle that doesn’t need to be recalled!!!

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for those who want to publish music and NOT want to sell presetsounds of any kind…

u can only claim copyright for harmony progressions and melodies and words…

no basslines, no beats…in any written form…

aaaand u can claim copyrights on mechanical recordings, meaning whole masterights of ur individual works in any performed and recorded form…

Rule of law means that laws apply to all individuals, regardless of status. For example:

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. – Anatole France

Regarding the meaning of individuals: The U.S. Supreme Court, in Citizens United, affirmed the personhood of corporations.

Advocating for the world as you describe it, above, will only result in more power being given to rich bastards and corporations.

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Copyright is assigned automatically to its creator it’s not something anyone needs to apply for or register (you’re probably thinking of Trademarks or Patents). There are ways to register copyright but that’s getting technical. EULA’s determine the limits of a software license and are something slightly different.

This is always the crux of the point, and you’re right about not needing to worry.

As a sufferer of anxiety I understand irrational fears but the people selling us instruments aren’t setting up some kind of elaborate bait-and-switch.

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You have raised some very good points there my man!

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But not chord progressions.
And not all melodies, according to some weird court decisions.
When it comes to words, common phrases are also excluded from copyright.

This is true for a simple bass line, but there are certainly exceptions.
If the bass line is the melody of the song publishing rights still apply.
See Robin Thicke’s Blurred Lines(a 7 million dollar bass line).
I’m also pretty sure that applies to a lot of songs from the Red Hot Chili Peppers or the iconic bass line from Queen’s Another One Bites the Dust.

I assume by beats you mean drum beats, because things like hip-hop beats are protected by copyright of course. Written drum lines do not have copyright indeed.

An article about some exceptions and misconceptions:

I’m an American lawyer and hobbyist musician. I’m not a copyright lawyer, but I’ve had some practical experience with copyright law in my work as a web developer/publisher, and I’ve been following this topic out of interest.

Lawyers are bad at writing contracts for non-lawyers, which is usually what gives rise to confusion (like the “Google/Facebook/etc. says it owns your stuff!” panic every time they update their terms). It seems to be causing confusion around preset/sample licenses, as well.

For example, the Polyend Creative Commons—NonCommercial license is getting at the same thing as other sellers or distributors of samples. It just means you can’t turn around and sell those “raw” samples. I don’t see how it’s any more problematic than any other license.

In nearly every case, that’s what sellers or distributors of samples are trying to prevent. They just don’t want you to turn around and re-sell those samples (or a bare recording of those samples). Or in the case of a synth preset, they don’t want you to just record the preset and sell the recording.

There is a lot of gray area. I admit the “musical sequence” language is hopelessly confusing, but what I imagine they are thinking of is something like an OP-1 drum kit, which is a sequence of one-shots, combined into one file with no overlapping.

If you tried to sell a musical composition composed entirely of unmodified one-shots with very little overlapping so that someone could easily extract the one-shots themselves, I can see that being a problem. (And also it’s not very creative, in my opinion.) Same if you tried to sell a musical composition where the bassline was a one-note-at-a-time sequence of an unmodified Digitone preset. Especially if you tried to sell the stems, in which case I could come along and sample the bassline and essentially get myself a Digitone preset.

Some of the license language is pretty bad, overbroad, etc. And as others have pointed out, there’s an important difference between legal copyright infringement and copyright infringement that will actually get you sued (or your work taken down from YouTube, et al.). But as long as you are making actual music from presets or bundled samples, I wouldn’t worry too much. That’s what they’re for.

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…hiphop beats made out of samples from old records are a common copyright law suit…yes.
not because of the beat as itself, but for the fact of the mechanical rights that were abused here, since they’re little pieces of a recording somebody else “owns”…

and sure, a bassline can also be the lead melody…but then, it’s no bassline anymore… :wink:
well well well it’s only getting more and more complicated…in a world with round about 40 thousand new releases every single day, while the old business more and more discovers how much more and more they can squeeze out of their backcatalogs by recovering their same old hits into new genres again and again while the world still has only 5 handful of letters and 12 notes…

and even the hedgefonds start to invest in backcatalogues these days…
neil young cashed out his whole material ever written…springsteen cashed out, too…and so did good old elton…while oops, taylor swift cashed back in and rerecords all her old albums fresh these days, to call her stuff her own for real after all…all things must pass and lifetime contracts are closing in on U…can’t shake it off…
it’s a weird business…

it was a great step forward for civilisation to acknowledge the fact, that an idea has also value…but all that copyright protection thing will come to an end once capitalism will eat itself…and, err, we’re getting there, sooner than later, i’m afraid…

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Yup, Mariah sampled the Digitone for that one. Shame on her. I always looked up to that song, but knowing this now, I look side-eye to that song.

Back on topic, I am no lawyer, so maybe the OP can or cannot sell samples/loops made with the Digtone. Maybe consult a lawyer.

Flag users will be happy.

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