Dawless Mastering Gear (videos)

fmr RNLA is what i use as limiting/compressing for live use, id suggest that over the RNC for saturation/character.

also not directly outboard gear stuff like ssl SiX can be used to technically master a signal quite well.

also: ive always been interested to see how the behringer DEQ2496 holds up these days, older behringer boxes have a lot of character from my experience with the mdx2600

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I see what you did there. :smile:

I actually use two RNC in series: one for compression, the other for hard limiting…

Nothing gets through. I find them to be very accurate, as budget compressors go.

When I want saturation, I’ve got an old USA-built VLA. Noisy, but loads of character.

Cheers!

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Will see if I can try them in series for this series.
VLA is a bit big for on the road :wink:

btw, if anyone is interested in 500 series, theres a bunch of very affordable diy clone kits here
https://www.soundskulptor.com/en/home.php

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I would like to see a SSL Comp/Pultec EQ combination setup in the 500 format. There are quite a number of modules to select from for such a setup. I’m using the ones from IGS myself.

Maybe also look into end-of-chain reverb setups?

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Would you mind posting a photo of your settings? I’ve been experimenting with using a few FMR boxes in series but I’m having trouble getting them to interact well.

For instance an RNLA as a comp on a digitakt, then using an RNC to glue that signal with an external synth or electric bass.

But one always seems to end up squishing the other down to nothing.

my current favorite thing is the Art Pro VLA II. very mixed reviews online but its much nicer than i anticipated. i love what it does to the end of my signal chain

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How about Source Audio Atlas?

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The ART TransY is another decent mix/master bus compressor. The TransY and Pro VLA II are solid performers and well built for the price.

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Atlas added and 500 series is definitely something I’m going to try and get a hold of

Regarding 19” rack gear:

I should point out that this series is mainly meant for portable devices for a daw less setup. Although 19” is not impossible to travel around with, it makes a setup quite beefy quite quickly. When I run out of options on the portable side of things maybe I’ll switch to more of a studio approach for the series or something :slight_smile:

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Their tape simulator driven hard is gold dust and deserves a place in this thread. No longer in production though they do it in 500 series.

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I have to admit, I have ssl fusion and bus + to deal with this. Don’t really understand it, but sounds very nice

Thanks for this link. I’m currently drooling over all their offerings. Since I want to up my soldering chops I might actually get into these at some point. Very cool :slight_smile:

I’ve opted to pay someone to solder it together that repairs synths proffessionally. It still works out considerably cheaper even with silver solder. There is also the option to buy these units pre built on the website.

I’m not currently touring with those devices.

However, when it comes to compression, gain-structuring is everything; therefore, my settings would not work with your mix anyway, and there’s no way for me to troubleshoot that remotely.

All I can do is assure you that the FMR boxes are very accurate, with plenty of overhead, and perform their tasks well; so, if your mix is draining either compressor, it’s likely that you’re hitting them too hard, patching them wrong, or the issue is elsewhere in your signal path or mix.

It’s worth noting that putting a linear, single-band compressor end-of-chain will always reveal imbalances in your mix. Unlike a multiband compressor, which addresses each frequency range separately, a linear compressor reacts only to the single highest peak. So, if your bass is too loud, you’ll lose everything in the mix above the knee frequency of that bass, and vice versa. Something as tiny as a hi-hat or shaker could, if mixed too loudly, drain your mix of everything above and below that frequency. To which end, the harder you hit the compressor, the more critical the balance of your mix becomes, as well as your compression settings.

Sorry, King, I wish I could be more help, but there’s simply no single rule that will work for all situations. Indeed, compression settings are non-transferrable from one mix to the next.

Cheers!

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i found this little tut usefull for drum buss compression Drum Compression Basics: Creating Punchy Drums with Hannes Bieger - YouTube

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Further to my post above, I meant to say…

And that’s before you consider what the objective is: i.e. simple limiting, pumping…

People often look to compressors to fix their mix—the aforementioned “glue” factor—but that’s not really what compressors do.

Technically, a good mix should render a compressor redundant.

Compressors were designed to compensate for the pitfalls and shortcomings of recording mediums: i.e. like when a highly dynamic pickup or mic meets a player or vocalist with a huge dynamic range; or tricky electronic situations wherein maximum output must be achieved for, say, broadcast purposes, without clipping.

We’re in an era of abusing compressors now (the “loudness war”, as it were). Which is fine, but you have to know what you’re doing, if you’re hoping for musical results.

Cheers!

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Totally agree with you on the above.

For the use case of this thread it’s pretty important though. The sound from hardware alone with compact live setups is not as surgical as we can get within a DAW or studio hardware. So the “gluing” becomes pretty much part of the sound and can really bring a hardware mix together in live situations. Plus the peak control is pretty vital. Should be used in a subtle way of course (or not in the case of saturation when you like a bit of crunch :slight_smile: )and indeed gain staging is important .

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This is the crux of my point really.

We’re in agreement. I totally understand what you’re going for, Dave.

However, often people are hoping for simple solutions to complex issues.

I use compressors everywhere in my live rig; but on a bus-by-bus basis, wherein each compressor can address a specific anomaly, so that my end-of-chain devices can do their job more effectively.

Cheers!

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Au contraire, your reply is incredibly helpful.

I’m not playing live, but I try to record as much as possible live-to-disk.

Partly because I find editing and mixing in a DAW always feels like a chore and kills my workflow. Partly because I try to compose things that I could conceivably play live with only 1 or 2 other musicians.

Though now your reply, and Dave’s videos, actually lead me to wonder if my issue is the opposite to what you describe—that I’m not hitting the comp hard enough, or, really that I’m not running my sources nearly hot enough into my mixer in the first place.

Here’s why I think this: I usually have to turn the threshold on any FMR device well below -20 to get it to react when I run stuff out from my mixer. I never turn it above -10.

That ends up giving me a really tiny window to find a sweet spot on each song, which sucks. Not much room to play between no engagement and total squashage.

I notice this on the PBC too—i.e. I need to really crank the “Input” knob for it to engage.

I also notice I usually have to turn the Output way down to match the bypass level. Most folks I see turn this up, so I must be doing something wrong.

FWIW I almost always employ AdamJay’s high-pass sidechain method to strip most of the low bass from the signal, except I use a cheap 3-band parametric EQ pedal instead of an inline widget thingie. Otherwise I find FMR boxes don’t seem usable for any music with ass-shake appeal.

Oh, I guess I should answer the Q of why use compression at all.

First, I often find my DT sounds less lively on playback than during recording. Mixing in a compressed signal seems to make up for this deadening effect.

Second, I’ve found that mixing Korg and Elektron gear is a gain-staging nightmare, because all my korgs have insane dynamic peaks and valleys.

That’s what I meant by “glue” . . . Making sure the DT, Korg and my Fender J all share some dynamic quality and don’t step all over each other.

Your response makes me think I need to change my order of operations and really limit the Korgs before I do anything else.