Did Elektronauts become "british" these days?! :-D

The Lounge General Discussion
#265

Yep pretty sure KD Lang is a staunch feminist!

Everyone has the right to be offended. But I don’t understand the current trend of anti-freedom of speech and ‘safe spaces’. There is nothing wrong with not liking or being offended by something. It’s all good as long as it’s not abusive.

WTF it’s like the ultimate 1984 where everyone has to subconsciously censor themselves continually for fear of offending someone or some label.

It’s like the world has reverted to being 5yo in nursery again and expecting the teacher to intervene because little Billy said something that hurt your feelings.

Please can everyone calm and stop all this being offended and policing - I find it highly offensive and against the intrinsic rights of every free thinking, free speaking, intellectual! :wink: hahaha

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#266

Do we really need to post pictures of women in suggestive positions on a synth forum to feel like a “free speaking” intellectual? :slight_smile:

Are the people in 1984 really afraid of offending people? I’m thinking of the “two minute hate”, where they look at terrible things being done to other human beings and get super excited about it. With complete lack of empathy for “the other.”

You could also look at the situation from another perspective: people are trying get their voice heard, sharing feelings of exclusion from the group. But we shut them down and tell them to keep their mouth shut, using arguments like anti-freedom, calling their tone of voice aggressive etc… This is the definition of Big Brother to me. You are not allowed to criticize the powers that be or share your feelings. Just pretend that everything is alright for everyone and carry on.

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#267

It’s not quite that simple, you’re possibly speaking from your own perspective and failing to consider the bigger picture …

I 100% agree with you concerning ‘safe spaces’ … there’s something deeply troubling about that notion when it’s extended to places where freedom of thought and speech should be unhindered … I mean in particular on university campuses etc

However, Elektronauts does not have an anything goes remit, it’s a place for like minded individuals to mainly discuss many things related to our love of music and machines and peripheral issues, of course that can extend a lot sideways, but it’s not designed to capture all scenarios of free speech (in the way that it is crucial when properly debating weighty topics in academic spaces)

It’s a massively nuanced thing anyway, what constitutes offence to one person may vary considerably to the next, before you consider different cultural backgrounds and so on … but the important thing as far as Elektronauts is concerned is that we have to balance the general tone of discussion to make and protect it to be as appealing to the broadest group possible centred around the main purpose of the site. The public park test is therefore a good idea, you don’t want to hear foul or aggressive language or tone because it breaks the magic of being there for some who want to relax … if you need to be coarse then it’s the wrong park for you

Also keep in mind that Elektron are to some extent legally accountable for the things we say (as too are we) so there is good reason why we chose to stamp down on some posts (we’ve pulled anti semitic posts, misogynistic posts and so on) … from the moderation perspective we try to strike a balance between being as quiet as possible but whilst also trying to ensure that the forum is as inviting as possible to the widest possible group … so whilst the above post is not something blatantly sexist (it is a commercially released album sleeve after all) … it’s the tone direction that the thread takes which starts to take it off-piste and starts to make it increasingly likely it will become alienating if you’re someone who doesn’t want to be distracted by innuendo and in particular if you’re a woman who sees this as a sexualizing turn … yeah, we’re all broad minded adults and we all understand it and nobody’s judging the activity, we (as moderators) are simply questioning the big picture value in going down certain paths, particularly if they are going off-piste

However, I’m also sure we need light and balance from time to time and that it’s possible that the moderation seems heavy handed, we are just making tricky balanced calls sometimes factoring in how this plays out for the broader community inclusivity and Elektron … I’m very broad minded, so it’s not a prudishness which drives my views on these topics, it’s a sense of appropriateness for this place coupled with the knowledge that seemingly harmless casual low level sexism still has a pernicious effect

Please, do not let this thread get derailed by allowing it to focus solely on the topic which doomed that other thread, I understand fully why @LyingDalai chose to flag that up, firstly as a very decent fellow and secondly as a moderator … it’s not so simple from our perspectives, especially when discussing ideas, particularly if they are humorous in intent or meme-like … maybe we get it wrong, but it’s not for the want of policing

It’s not something that is too fixed either, it’s a judgement, it may be subject to reflection/review … we don’t want to have to intervene, it’s more work - we just want to keep it light, inviting and genial and off these doomed weighty polarising topics where possible

The film poster is one that i’d bet wouldn’t fly today - the actual image is less troubling than the introduction of the idea, here, no matter how light hearted the intent imho … it’s not so problematic all in to be fair, it’s more that it’s knocking on the door … oh. I dunno, hope I don’t regret mentioning this, the important thing is that we have to keep a balance and that Elektronauts is not the right platform to protect free speech within … if we endeavour to keep things from derailing, which is inevitable in a free for all, surely that’s the best path

On the other hand, I totally get it, I’m not quite so sure about whether and how to draw these lines … there are brave free thinking atheists being murdered all over the world because freedom of speech is denied them … yet we are probably all in agreement this should be a secular space, context is important, this is a music machines forum after all

I can’t speak for the other moderators either … plus it’s worth pointing out that we are not directed by Elektron at all, we often discuss things between ourselves though to figure out how to play it

it’s a difficult issue, I’m increasingly torn about it now, :loopy:

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#268

This video scared me…
How this ad can encourage people to buy Kinder haha ?

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#269

Yeah, it scarred me for life as a 12 year old. It’ll be etched on my brain forever!
Amazingly, that was Kinder’s launch campaign in the UK!
Those crazy Advertising cats.

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#270

I feel like I’m missing something, as the cover and content both seem pretty harmless (a woman with big thumbs hitchhikes cross country to be a rancher) and it was posted in the context of hitchhiking to Hawaii for a drink with other forum members. The thing under her is a yellow road marker. Could you or @LyingDalai explain the issue with the image pls?

Since we’re already off-piste it might as well be properly clarified.

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#271

Getting bit ridiculous no? If we’re to entirely protect people’s feelings then we literally can’t say anything… People talking about booze/legal highs above. Prob some people out there have had their lives ruined by both. People talking about gear. Probably people bummed out cos they’re in poverty. Blah blah blah :wink:

I agree let’s curb sexist comments etc. But realistically Id suggest only intended/blatant stuff otherwise you open a whole can of worms based on interpretation and for consistency you have to censor a ton of other potentially offensive topics/words that weren’t intended in the way someone might read them. Where does it end?

“Those who justify themselves do not convince”, said the Taoist sage, Lao Tzu, and perhaps that’s because they often sound something like this: “I know you think you understand what you thought I said, but I’m not sure you realise that what you heard is not what I meant.”

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#272

Ahahahah so it’s my interpretation that might have been wrong : I thought it was a glass (we talked about beer). With some yellow in it. Add the “golden” reference… @chinchilla also caught it, so I’m not alone…
And @housecliche posted this for a purpose, I wonder what it was, right after people going golden…

@avantronica really expressed my own feelings as both mods and Elektronauts. I find each of his words pretty right.
@Callofthevoid you can see I haven’t censored anything : I haven’t removed a post or whatever, just asked @Housecliche to consider editing his post that was in my own eye bound to the golden reference before, something I found highly sexist (but again, I might have been plain wrong, maybe it was just an interpretation).
In my language, this means he should try to look at this from a different angle (maybe the one of a fellow Naut that happens to be a girl, in this very example), and ask himself if it’s really relevant, or opens the door to the bad.
It just not my way to censor people, I hate this, I want everyone here to be able to speak how they feel about anything.
I am just careful to keep the big picture and ask to consider amending content only when I think that the poster might offend someone else.
Pease don’t see us mods as the police, dear.
In my head, we’re on the same boat.

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#273

The comment that was made was that the golden thread had somehow been tilted towards a notion of golden ‘somethingelse’ whilst showing a squatting woman over an ambiguous shape … it was the idea that was troublesome as I mentioned … also, the thread had moved over to one about censoring which was what I wanted to comment about, less so the original spark whether misinterpreted or not … I don’t think the posted image was about a hitchhike to Hawaii fwiw, the leap was made by others

#274

Thank God she aint naked!!!

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#275

Hardly, I was posting about the challenges of moderating, not the nature of that post, ambiguous or not

#276

I meant in general on the forum lately. Not your post specifically :wink:

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#277

Yeah wasn’t criticising you personally or insinuating you were over-censoring :wink:

IMO just let stuff ride, people can take what they want from other people’s posts. If someone portrays themselves as an asshole (not saying anyone has) then fine, leave it out for show, I’d rather know (as well as is possible via online) who I’m talking to :wink:

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#278

i have the feeling that if we were better at summarize what we all agreed as “positive” and what it’s important for Elektronauts rather to discussed on “negative aspects” or detect “what’s wrong” (with the problematic of people from different countries with different skills to deal with English…) We probably make better post.

As it’s a public place we wrote here things and we responsible so as it’s not a debate chatroom we need to think before to write. Writing to contribute to a thread because finally it’s that the most important… : “Topic”.

I’m sure everyone is open at least, better encourage women to join elektronauts because every angle on a topic is important. And we need to encourage the open-minded and musicians to contribute, and as we know a musician is a human person where genre is not important as well as music genre too !!!

Let’s just be open minded and protective of women in words, gestures and good manners. if you meet a woman who play live or studio (or just interested to start something) with or without elektron gear just invite them to join us. because actually we not have to debate of that, we have more to invite to join us ! It will be much more rewarding for everyone to see decreased testosterone levels here

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#279

YI get it.
And it’s pretty cool to have a place like this to say anything we mean to say.

But even when I was not a mod, and all the more now that I am, I have been asking people to consider their own words when I thought they where uncool, or lack of respect.
Not to me, but to any Naut.

Of course, as is the picture is nothing.
In its context it becomes sexist.
I discovered in the other thread sexism was far from over, and I now feel very concerned about this.
Thus my gentle remark : I want to give anyone a chance to show some character, when I feel there’s some room for this.
In the street you wouldn’t dare to treat women or any human with disrespect. The relative anonymity Internet gives is no excuse to do it.
This is my humble opinion.

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#280

poison injection from that other thread detected …
poison injection from that other thread detected …
poison injection from that other thread detected …
poison injection from that other thread detected …
poison injection from that other thread detected …
poison injection from that other thread detected …
poison injection from that other thread detected …

FORGET THAT OTHER THREAD!
FORGET THAT OTHER THREAD!
FORGET THAT OTHER THREAD!
FORGET THAT OTHER THREAD!
FORGET THAT OTHER THREAD!
FORGET THAT OTHER THREAD!

:kissing_smiling_eyes:

oh and btw - there really wasnt ANYTHING wrong with this picture. A women decided to be shot in that pose, she wasnt forced to do so (its at least to be expected). So it was her decision. So nothings wrong. im with @enryo here. Freedom of speech stops if we are forced to think twice about what we say when its about women. and women are NOT those uber sensitive human beings some might think :wink: at least i dont know any women taking things like this (or stuff in the other thread) too serious. so - take your velvet gloves away, dammit !!! :smiley:

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#281

Well, indeed, but it’s not an easy balance to reach … like I said, I’m not entirely sure how I feel about it in principle, but for here I think it’s okay to advocate a moderate tone for most discussions to ensure it’s basically welcoming … things do become more unruly when you allow difficult ideas to be voiced … that means anything from politics to moaning … anything which strays out of the middle ground is likely to become more polarising and heated, we just want the heat to stay manageable

I wish the discussions on the tricky subjects could have been sustained longer, but it’s the way in which people post when they’re animated about something that is mostly the issue rather than the issue being discussed …

this doesn’t really work if you want the park to be inviting though … however, there’s really very little that actually disappears from view … take above for example, someone has edited their own posts without being asked to

it’s also worth noting that the community is its own police too … posts with multiple flags are automatically removed even when there’s no moderation involved

think of all the house party scenarios there are, we can’t possibly cater for all the preferences and just assume that we should adopt the most extreme … we have to find the middle ground so that it’s not too tame or too raucous and remains interesting to the most people possible whilst remaining fun … this year we have lost three (at least) of the most raucous members who just couldn’t live within the constraints we need, no doubt there are some who find the albeit infrequent ego fuelled posturing happening here off-putting too

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#282

Agreed. And the joke of posting the picture (if I understood it correctly) eventually winds up at the fact that the joke only exists because a bunch of men are oddballs and some of them get kicks out of being urinated on by women… As messed up as that is, I wouldnt call it sexist (if anything id say that’s a pretty dominating act for anyone to do to someone else…). More like what the hell is wrong with some humans :wink:

#283

Ok i called K.d. Lang and she said back on topic…

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#284

agreed! but you meant: Back to OFF topic, right?! :joy:

so - i like this idea of traveling to Hawaii with all the fellow Elektronauts … im packing already :smiley:
Now we need a Sponsor … Elektron, would you?! :sweat_smile::sweat_smile:

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