Fred Again..(the producer)

I can’t stand that audiophiles guy. He’s so obnoxious. :grinning:

I hate that he always talks about himself for half an hour and sometimes more. Like, dude, that’s boring as fuck, we all come to listen guests talk… Then he starts squeaking randomly (maybe the guy thinks he’s an opera singer) and I have to turn down my headphones not to get tinnitus. And it has crappy mastering in general. It’s a mess.

In contrast, Tape Notes are oozing with professionalism. It’s like driving a Mercedes Benz. Ordinary, but comfy and reliable.

Mmmm I can see what you’re saying. I think that one needs a good editor. I’ve had chance to listen to the 2nd TapeNotes one, and it’s absolutely fantastic as you say. That said, I did really like the points about his history from the Audiophiles show, but arguably most of the rest could have been cut.

Yeah, that might be true. The guy’s on his own probably.

Fred Agains songs seem to have a clever simplicity that’s actually helping me break out of the loop and properly arrange some of my stuff finally. there’s definitely an instant accessibility about his stuff although i doubt i’ll be having any of it on repeat years down the line. also my 2 year old son absolutely loves rumble (killers in the jungle). we dance around the room together singing it.

a note on jamie liddell. i remember seeing this music vid like 20 or so years ago and thinking “jesus this guys gonna be massive”…

and then being rather non plussed by the funk soul stuff. someone on the youtube chat mentioned supercollider which has completely passed me by. looking forward to checking it out.

So having listened to the 3 podcasts again, I’ve tried to summarise Fred’s music making theories.

Technology. Fred is noted for his use of technology, and he speaks glowingly about the iPhone mic, as he loves the compression in Voice Notes. He says that the phone is both his favourite mic and speaker. He talks about the human qualities this has, which he thinks comes from the fact that it’s a sound that’s part of society.

Subtractive Sampling. This isn’t unique to Fred, but I find this the most interesting aspect of what he does. You can find traces of this approach in lots of other electronic music from the late 00s, and likely before. The general idea here is that samplers are more interesting than synths (the theory goes that trying to find an interesting sound in complexity is more interesting than taking a sine wave and making it complex.) Maybe this is something that is more simple with advances in technology and increases in sample time/granular plugins etc. From memory, it goes back as far as Wolfgang Voigt and The Field with microsampling & minimal techno; into artists they directly influenced like Tourist (who was the first person I saw talking about this technique). Then it’s a short hop/skip/jump into in the music of Jamie XX, Four Tet and Burial - the last three of which went to the same school. (Fred knows Four Tet and has worked with Romy from the XX, and it feels like there’s a definite kinship there.) I wonder if that’s how he ended up using that technique; as I notice some of the sounds on USB EP are not unlike some of those in Jamie XX tunes.

Big clarity moves. Fred talks about how it’s super important not to get lost in the detail when writing. Instead the focus needs to be whether the emotion and the arrangement is right, above all else. He talks about how he deliberatley uses non-pro tools like his phone to judge song structures. Fred seems to recognise that audiophiles/producers are prone to going into “mix mode” before the track is done. Using non pro-devices prevents this, and encourages what he calls big clarity moves.

The devil isn’t in the detail (at first). Along a similar line, he also says the benchmark for good writing in electronic music is like on acoustic guitar. You you can build the core motif of a song with an acoustic guitar and 3-4 chords, and the core of that tune is distinctive without any anything else. His point here is that if the song is right, it’ll still feel right even if you’re using the “wrong” kick. Linked to big clarity moves he also advises things like not changing the kick until right the end, and rather than EQ’ing the one you have, try 20 and see what works best. Also don’t A/B your mix until the song itself is actually finished.

The state of play. Fred talks again and again about how being playful is the key to arriving at the songs he wants; referencing that he picked this mentality up from Brian Eno. He mentions that it feels like there’s a balance between head and heart. But we only have a limited amount of heart, as those emotions are fleeting. He wants to keep the emotion alive as along as possible while writing, before then you end up in your head and over thinking things.

Out of control On a similar note, Fred seems to enjoy technology that you don’t or can’t control. He mentions the OP1 and modular where a lot of the time you actually don’t know what is going on, and suggests instruments like these can be rich tools for creativity. If you have any technical chops, you’ll fight against the not knowing part, but if you let that go, you’ll go into a song focus because you’ve given up on controling the technology. Also see: Portal, Morph and other VSTs.

On or off? Another aspect of play is that he talks about having plugin setting that act pretty much as an on/off switch. He talks about watching Boi Wonder and how they have no plugins on their mixes in the early stages. No EQ/no compression etc, and that only comes in right at the end.

Versions not version. Fred likes to have several versions of the same song, that he will often make and remake rather than a single version that he tweaks. He specifically references speed several times, talking about how he tends to work on a song for a few hours and move on if it’s not working. He mentions using time limiters on writing sessions like an hour or 15 minutes and then moving on. He says that experience has taught him this is like buying “more tickets to the lottery.”

Sonic stamp. Famously, a lot of the stuff he samples is stuff found on social media and background noise recorded on his phone. The way he describes this sounds almost like a sculptor chipping away at material, rather than a painter and a blank canvas (note; this sculptor analogy is also a more eastern way of looking at art.) He talks about how he starts a song with either background noise from his phone or a drone of some sort. This sets the tone and emotion and colour of the song.

Hope this is a useful summary…

26 Likes
5 Likes

I forgot to give credits to Moderat (the background beat) on the second video. A new error - almost a classic. Used to scratch practice over that.

3 Likes

Which is that? I gathered from interviews that they are both collaborators/sounding boards for each other or at least aquainted enough to play sets together.

1 Like

This set looked pretty good to me, guy plays his own tunes live… whats not to like? lots of sweaty happy people :smiley:

for those with less time ~3min

It’s fucking Jamie Liddell mate.

He’s earned the right to be a bit obnoxious.

12 Likes

I actually thought he (Lidell) was arrogant at first too - I think it’s just a cold first impression thing and his memes, mannerisms of speaking. You listen to a few episodes and you realize pretty quick he is sincere and pretty vulnerable at times. Super eager to talk about process, methods, and praise the interview subject. But yeah, Jamie’s been around A BIT.

The pod is great. People should listen to it. Drink every time he says ‘absolutely’ or ‘by all means’

7 Likes

Yeah, that might be true. I am not saying that this podcast is bad or anything. It just felt like the way he does it is kind of not my cup of tea, that’s all.

1 Like

His finger drumming is inspirational.
How do you find the latency on the pads of a mk3? issue/can deal/no issue…

2 Likes

Before I checked out Fred I was pretty much sold on Maschine as a first step in electronic music, but their M1 issues put me off. I still like the idea of it but I’ve gone the Ableton route now. I use a lot of samples, but I don’t do any of the finger drum wizardry that Fred does - I’m more about messing with melodic samples & chops. I think in his case it makes loads of sense as he writes through Logic, so Maschine is a like a whole new instrument inside it, where Ableton is pretty mega in the sampling department. I could just do with a 4x4 of really chunky pads!

1 Like

Fred talks a lot about Four Tet in his interviews - I think calls him a friend also - and he mentions a few times how they feed back on each others tracks. Based on what Fred says on the podcasts, I’m guessing (though who really knows for sure) that this is an in-joke.

1 Like

I’m told for the most part they are now resolved and most of their key apps run natively on M1 (but not M2!) I toyed with Logic because I quite like arrangement view even in Ableton. What sealed it for me though was a combo of the M-chip issues and a general feeling that the Maschine song building view looked a lot like session view in Ableton, and I’d have to learn both. But in Logic, I can totally see that Maschine brings something special to the table, as I know a lot of people say it could use more punch in the sampling department. It’s a bit ahead of its time really in bringing the power of software into a hardware intefrace while also giving a groovebox feel. If Ableton made a Push 3 that had bigger pads for sampling etc, it would be unreal.

1 Like

…because of this thread (thanks OP!) I gave him a listen, on the trainer in the garage (the latest album) and I got strong Burial vibes of having his sound/doing his approach.

Really like it, not my usual vibe but really loving it…positive…uplifting…deceptive (thanks again OP)

EDIT: Couldn’t help digging a bit more…looks like he was blessed by birth (shane o'neill, 3rd baron o'neill great grandchildren - Sök på Google)
…Marlborough College no less. Not to take away from his music…unless…you know…it does for you

4 Likes

Glad to know I’m not the only one making that random connection :smiley:

Getting ridiculous now… So good! The fact they’ve gone with an hour loop of this is pretty telling really as this is the first tune in ages I’ve been reaching regularly for the repeat button.

1 Like