Having trouble getting my drums to really punch

The Lounge Other Gear
#1

I’ll try not to make this too long winded but I wanted to step you through my process so maybe you guys could point out what I’m doing wrong or not doing.

I have a basic understanding of audio engineering and and advanced understanding (and professional experience in) sound designing which is why it pains me to admit this but I am seriously having trouble getting my drums to hit just right and have a real punch to them. It’s one of the main reasons why I don’t finish tracks it’s because even if the idea is great if it doesn’t have that professional polish then I don’t feel like it’s worth finahing and releasing so it’s holding me back a lot.
So my process is this (and this applies across all the genres I dabble in, UK garage, dub techno, Phonk, deep dubstep)

For a very simple drum kit example
Let’s say I start with a sub bass, I’ll EQ it so that maybe there’s a slight boost where the upper body of it is and if necessary I’ll apply slight compression just give it some transient (genre dependent)
Then for the kick I’ll cut the sub frequencies to leave plenty of space for the sub bass I usually will cut it to where the highest end of the sub bass is so that when the kick and sub hit at the same time it sounds like one sound. I’ll also give it a slight EQ boost where the ‘top’ of the kick is (say like 90hz or so) and I’ll add compression to bring out transients without cutting the balls off it. And if necessary depending on the sample/sound of it has a lot of top end I’ll make a slight cut where the snare hits and I’ll do a general high cut of unwanted high frequencies.
For the snare I do basically the same where I’ll compress to bring out transients I’ll EQ all the sub and low frequencies I’ll make little EQ bumps for the most interesting parts of the snare and a cut out a little space in the top where the High hats will be.
For hihats I EQ all the low to mid out (unless I want a little chunky mid in there, genre depending) and I might add very slight boosts to the more interesting bits. No compression.

Then I’ll mix based off the genre let’s say for Phonk or deep dubstep I’d have the sub bass louder than nearly all the other drums the kick would be as loud as it needed to be while still giving the illusion that the sub is larger than everything else the snare will probably the second loudest thing in the this drum kit example if I really want that short chest slapping snare sound then hihats will be much lower
Then I’ll EQ and compress then entire drumbus to taste.

If needed I’d side chain the Sub to the drum bus to duck the rest of the drums when the sub comes in also genre dependent.

Then I’ll have a limiter on the master and adjust to taste just to get a little extra perceived loudness.
When I mix my levels all start out at -6db and I mix everything low so I have plenty of headroom for later boosting things via EQ, compression and limiting.

In theory this all makes sense and is how I’ve learned to get my drums right and usually it sounds pretty good once I’m done however once I pull up whatever I’m listing to for inspiration and as a reference track it just isn’t hitting the same. I’m sure a lot of producers send their stuff out to be professionally mastered or at very least run it through Ozone before they release it but I just feel like I should be getting the results I’m looking for and I’m just not perfectly there at this point.

This is more of a problem for me when I’m using sample based drums more then if I craft a drum kit out on the MD or AR I get closer when I’m using synthesized drums but even with that the results are never as punchy and professional as I need them to be also lot of genres are defined by specific drum sounds so sometimes I have to use sample based stuff.

I was wondering if you guys could give me some advice/feedback or help me get this.
It’s a massive goal of mine in life to start finishing and releasing music again I haven’t finished or released anything in literally years and I think it’s because it’s just not polished enough so I end up putting it down. I come up with ideas all the same and I’m great at designing synth sounds and writing basslines and melody etc but when the sound quality isn’t on par I get discouraged and just went up playing instead of creating.

Any and all advice would be much apprcsited

#2

…don’t start with sub and low ends…start with rhythmical content and basslines…make them interact, breathe with each other…shape transients…focus most basic down and up beat rules…then tickle low AND hi ends with eq’s and glue compression…low mud is where the low mid is…if sub end does not show up at some point, define lowest octave with additional sine wave underneath ur kiks…shape gaps in the mid lows…always keep in mind, ur lowest octave can end up too low to translate in certain keys…tuning ratios are essential…and so are transients…separate impressions of kiks and snares by layering…a kick has a transient, a thumb and a tail…always more efficient to shape them via individual ingredients than to search for that one “perfect” sample…there is no such thing in most cases…all tails tend to be too long in first place…if u go for long tails and overlaps, it must come from a clear decision to proceed so on certain elements, not just by accident all over the place…each point of impact hit is as important as the gap inbetween…in all sub and low end, only one thing can rule at any given moment…

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#3

Choosing the right samples and applying parallel compression on the drum buss makes my drums usually punch hard enough for me.
But it’s probably subjective and dependent on taste.
Abletons drum buss is a great tool I find.
I don’t like too much processing, I‘d rather choose a different sound source if it doesn’t work

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#4

Can you provide some examples of what you want to hear vs what you’re creating?

There’s a lot that goes into a kick, but it also sounds like you’re overthinking it to me, punchy kicks aren’t that hard to find!

Are you working in the DAW? I wasn’t 100% sure with your post. If you are then Drum Buss is a magic bullet in Ableton.

Compression and making space for the kick can really help, clean up all your other tracks low ends, make sure it’s not having to compete with mud.

Otherwise just a really good kick sample should get you far!

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#5

Like mentioned above. And perhaps I’ll misinterpreted, but it seems you build the track “upon” the sub bass. There’s all the most energy and, depending on your monitors, way more then you realise. But compressors and other fx do realise and do not forgive.
Decrease the sub and try saturation before boosting. HP below 20 hz 12db/24db and cut a bit in the kick range. If the balance is right you can easily boost the subs in the masteringprocess if needed as there aren’t any other instruments in that range. So get the punch with the kick and rest of drums right first while backing down the sub groove for a while. That said. It’s the most challenging part of the mix.
Another note what helped me a lot is to take the step and let a mix get mastered. Just for your own piece of mind. I made the same mistake and was trying to mix to a mastering level whole my life. Never satisfied because i heared a track different in my mind than i was able to mix. Until I received a mastered one and i realized i was “there” all the time.

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#6

Some examples would be nice. Hard to say what to do without hearing. And there is also the “problem” with how we adjust to the stuff we make. Even if you had the hardest hitting drums, it would sound “flat” after listening to it for 3 hours straight. Like we sometimes does when producing and mixing our own music. :slight_smile:

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#7

Maybe try starting with your higher frequency sounds instead, hats on down. Get a good groove that you can live in for a bit, then start adding in lower register to taste

#8

If you’re doing a lot of EQing and compressing of clean drum samples, you’re in danger of making them sound a bit flat.

Try a bit of multi-band compression and try playing around with dry/wet levels to let some of the unprocessed sample through. Also, a bit of distortion or saturation can really add punch and sizzle. But then, I would say that, wouldn’t I…

I only use compression in parallel, especially with samples, as a lot of samples have already been through some amount of processing.

Finally, have you considered that there’s nothing wrong with your technique, but maybe you’re just bored of the samples you’re using?

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#9

À basic trick is to avoid adding volume.
Get everything low to be able to make one of the tracks shine above the other tracks.

Depending on your monitoring system, there are also chances you have blind spots (usually subs) that eat all the energy.
For this, using a high pass filter for cutting unheard frequencies is IMO the right move.

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#10

IMHO punchyness is a lot about the transient of a given sound in relation to the rest of the music. Before trying to fix this in the mix I’d insist on working on the sound themself at first.
I use different methods to spice up sounds. The sound of a frame drum (in the real world, kick, snare, etc.) has 3 components. An attack, a “timbre” and a body/weight.
Attack is the part you might be looking for but it lives within the otherones and one can certainly overdo this.
I use a Digitakt for my drumsounds, so pure sampling here. When choosing samples I most of all look for the right timbre and prefer to have a sample that has a bit of a longer tail (shortening is easy).
You said you have an Analog Rytm. This is a Digitakt plus analog, right?
Even with only the sample mangling you can form a punchy sound of the timbre is what you need.
For more attack I use overdrive / bit-reduction in conjunction with an lfo (used as an envelope).
Blend in the overdrive at the first few ms of fivefold sample - wonderful crunch. The length is important here to connect the attack with the body.
This always (!!!) makes it possible to shape the attack to let the sound be recognized (punch).
The body/weight is shaped with a hipass (!!) filter with resonance. It’s about the right cutoff freq. There sits weight.
A good exercise is also to listen to what makes good acoustic drums punchy. It’s a lot about the phrasing, accents, pauses, syncopation (you get the idea).
Maybe this helps you a bit.

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#11

It feels like you are overproducing.
Passing drums through multiple eq and compressors will dull them no matter what.
Its like compressing images, you lose detail, making them not as punchy.

I was really unhappy with my drums when i was using DAW, and no matter how many tiny fixes i applied - they never worked. Now i just run DN through a tapedeck, and im happy with the results.

For your situation i would suggest not having your drums in main fx bus, while only applying mild EQ to them so they fit better together (get sounds that you like as source without processing), make a groove that sounds good to you, and only after that introduce everything else.
Keep drums as is, a frame of reference on how they should sound, and only do mixing on other parts (melody/bass/ect). After those two sound good together, you may apply bus compression and saturation to taste.

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#12

What sounds that surround the drums are key. If they overpower the drums no matter how hard you try the drums wont have any big impact.

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#13

Have you considered that maybe you just need an Analog Rytm?

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#14

I set up a effects buss and smash the drums with saturation and compression (I use soundtoys). Then dial in a small amount to the mix.

Also make sure your not over compressing the master.

Some examples would be helpful btw.

#15

Get some Heat (Elektron) on your beat.

#16

Compressors reduce dynamics. Punch is largely dynamics. Proceed with this in mind.

2 Likes
#17

Try to do the best you can with only volume adjustments and (minimal) EQ. It helps to add an aditional HP filter here and there to make room in the lowend range for your kick and bass. Try to avoid any other tools like dynamics processing or transient shapers. Mix in mono when you can. When your mix sounds good in mono, it will sound even better in stereo.

This way you go back to the very basics of mixing and you can focus on how your sounds interact with each other in their purest form, with only volume and tone as parameters. Try to make it sound as good as possible.

When you are satisfied, you can compare your track with reference tracks: Don’t mind the overall volume difference with your reference tracks, just turn down the volume when you are comparing (or normalize the reference track to the RMS of your unmastered track). Our brains are wired that louder tracks “sound better”, so comparing on the same volume is important.

Focus on the balance of the sounds all together, not for “punchyness”. Go back to the mixing stage when needed.

Satisfied? Then you can use all kinds of dynamics processing to make it louder, punchier, do some transient shaping or sidechaining, multiband / parallel compression etc. And go back to stereo and be amazed how this opens up your track.

You will notice that small amounts of compression will have large “punchy” effects because the balance in your mix was already taken care of. Probably you won’t need much of it either, maybe some parallel compression and that’s it.

Then it will be an easy job to master your track or use ozone for that last bit of headroom crushing to be as loud as the others while still retaining your balanced and punchy sound.

3 Likes
#18

As far as understand, a lot of big room dance music uses many layers for each of the principle drum sounds. So a kick, for example, will be made up of three sounds/layers/samples, covering the weight/body/click respectively. Same for those massive snares in dubstep, etc. So try combining some samples to create a unified whole from well balanced layers each doing a specific job.

#19

I must admit that a lot of electronic music genres are overproduced and therefore flat sounding. This reminds me a bit of the loudness war (which is over, right?).
If it can´t get louder it has to be more upfront, in-the-face…etc.
No one seems to be talking about a mix anymore. It is about the athmosphere that arises of a good balance.

Dare to suck in that regard (you might not suck as heavy as you think :wink:).
Not releasing stuff means to stagnate as a musician. It´s the best you can do at a given point.
You can´t do more than you can do. You will develop (personally and skillwise) in a natural way if you hold on to it.
That is my true belief. Inspiration comes not technically but emotionally.
I recently watched an interview with Rick Rubin that really inspired me.

Making a great recording is more than to achieve a simple pattern (EQ, punch, melodic, you name it…).
The whole thing is more than the sum of it´s parts. The beauty lies in the creation.

Recently I started a track where I had the complete opposite experience. My drums where way to punchy for the melodic parts and I started to get a balance only when I slowed down attacks, cut away sub and ended up with a harmonious sketch. Nothing to release yet, but a good experience.
I elaborate on this because it is related to a blues recording I listened to where the kick drum was like an old suitcase. That made it so intimate.

If you are under a commercial preasure to release stuff in a specific genre this might not be helpful but what I more and more see ist ARTISTS behaving like workers (this is why I don´t like the word producer how it used nowadays). This reminds my to factory (in a way it is). But this will only lead to convenience products.
If you have to make a living of that - please don´t get me wrong - this is totally ok.

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#20

This is sad, you are putting unrealistic demands on yourself - who are you comparing yourself to and why?

Honestly as others have said you are WAY over thinking this.

You are comparing pro mastered finished tracks with your works in progress. Locker room syndrome.

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