It’s interesting, when it comes to headphone outs my main concern has generally been whether or not they can drive the headphones, but after a conversation with Allen & Heath recently I’m defintiely reconsidering this stance.
I was asking them about the fact I was struggling with the headphone out being too hot on a XONE:PX5, even though my headphones were rated above their impedance recommendation (I have to set the volume basically as low as it will go in a quiet environment), their response surprised me a bit in that they suggested the headphone out on the mixer is not ‘intended for critical listening’ and they suggested using the main out with a headphone amp.
So just because the output can drive the headphones (and then some) there’s nothing to say that the manufacturer intends you to be using it for ‘critical listening’. Most of the time these outputs are intended for cueing or monitoring so it’s something I’m going to think a lot more about moving forward.
I did a bit of research and I’m going to hold off getting a headphone amp for a possibly weird reason. RCAs.
If headphone amps had 1/4" ins then it would be an indication that it’s common to have these in a music studio. But since they have RCAs, this leans it more to an audiophile listening setup (IMO).
I’m not 100% certain, but for now I’m going to assume that the MOTU UL MK5 is driving the DT 1990’s to their potential, and that’s why they sound great.
It’s fair to assume that most people buying headphone amps will be using consumer equipment - but does it help or hinder your decision to know that my mixer has an RCA out?
My MOTU M4 - with some of the best converters under $1k - has RCA ins and outs in addition to 1/4".
My mixers all have RCA 2-track outputs, which is how I plan to drive the Magni if I need it over in synth land. As long as you are connecting consumer line level output to consumer line level input, I don’t see a problem.
Keep in mind that the “standard” for studios is the Sony 7506. It isn’t unreasonable for headphones that require more power … to require more power. The physics of needing a headphone amp is sound, what I’m less clear on is whether it is useful to spend more than $100-$300. I’m fine with RCA gear in my studio, but I’m pretty sure that all tubes should be in the signal chain before recording rather than at the listening stage.
I would also guess that if you are putting in a $250k mixing console, the manufacture will sell you an internal headphone amp with sufficient power, proper impedance, etc. to drive your $5000 headphones. Mixers under $1000 should probably drive the 7506 and then some.
I suspect what is happening is that big planar headphones are both cheap to make and need more power. The $100 Magni preamp is probably good enough for anyone who is messing around in the studio with big bassy < $300 planar headphones. Better headphones and amps might make sense if you are fine tuning your setup, but may not be the best use of your money otherwise.
As mentioned above though there’s more to it than whether the output can drive the headphones, you might have plenty of volume but if the impedance is all wrong then they won’t be responding as designed.
You’re more than likely correct about a mixing console being well equiped for that as its a more natural consideration - but it’s fair to assume that a £500 interface that has a focus on preamps and latency probably doesn’t have the best quality headphone amp, as its main intention is monitoring the input.
I just asked Motu on their support line, and they said the UL MK5 will drive the 250ohm DT 1990s “with ease” and that it can drive 600ohm headphones as well.
They said I don’t need a headphone amp. So that’s good enough for me (for now, until I get curious again )
Ah, but, and this is where I risk repeating myself (again It’s the last time I promise), but my recently attained information suggests that it’s not about the devices ability to drive the headphone as much as it is about how it impacts the dynamic range, which is why you’d be buying high impedance headphones.
My work Dell laptop can drive my 80ohm headphones with ease, but I suspect it’s not equalled to one of these amps being discussed.
I’m only guessing here but I think Motu’s response is about your need for a headphone amp, not about whether it will improve the quality of the output.
All this being said the Motu might work brilliantly with the 250’s, im not suggesting it doesn’t just that its a bit more nuanced than I think I realised a few days ago - and either way I suspect the difference you’d get with quality gear like a Motu is likely to be negligable anyway so it’s probably academic.
I think it’s this because it hits 85ma at 150ohm according to the chart from Julien Krause and the max on the DT 1990s is 100ma. So it might be 65ma at 250ohm. But now I’m just spewing numbers I don’t actually understand
Since the UL MK5 is not USB powered, I think that helps. I agree with you that the intended purpose of the headphone jack is still up in the air. If it’s monitoring vs critical listening, that’s important.
A lot of headphone amps have balanced xlr inputs. I wouldn’t buy one for studio use that just had rca inputs. I have never been in a professional studio that wasn’t using headphone amps, even if the reason was just that they didnt want to be using headphone extension cables.
I think there is too much fuzz about headphone amps, if your unhappy with your headphones, buy better ones (which often mean spending more money). a neumann ndh30, hifiman Arya or fostex th909 pluged into a macbook sounds way better than spending the same budget on a 500€-Headphone amp and cheaper headphones.
its the same discussion as audiophiles have about dithering or golden monitor cables, while doing nothing about room acoustics.
there are many high end headphones available with low impedance that run perfect on a macbook or any cheap audio interface. they use stronger magnets and stiffer membranes than some 20 years ago, so there is no need for thin wire coils with high impedances anymore (if they have dynamic converters).
if you have a certain buget, spend 9/10 to 10/10 on the headphones and maximum of 1/10 on the amp. this correlates to the impact both have on the sound. they are at least one if not two magnitudes apart.
one important tipp: if your headphones are older than lets say 3 years, buy new cushions. they have a much greater impact on the sound than any amp.
I have an HD565 with broken “speaker”. I can’t find the right name for that piece. ?
I saw HD600 parts for this a few years ago but I don’t know if it would fit a HD565…?
Generally, before I read a headphone thread like this I think I know what headphones I’m going to buy but after I read through the whole thing I have no idea what headphones I am going to buy.
For me at least it’s more a case of getting the most out of the equipment you have, not so much ‘improving it’, if your headphones don’t need an amp on the output you’re using them on then that’s definitely gold-cable territory - but to me there’s not much point in buying expensive headphones just to plug them into something that can’t drive them. Macbook outputs are pretty decent by spec, especially the new ones which have variable impedance switching.
I eventually ordered two different versions of HD 990 and DT 900 PRO X from Beyerdynamic outlet. Kept the 900s. Liked them the least in the beginning but after getting a bit used to the sound I now find my Sonys a bit punchy and their cushions feel very cheap. They are really great for having them on for a long time and using them at lower volumes as well. Thanks for all of your recommendations!
Side note: One of the 990 units was broken, left side audio was barely audible. But the 900s work great so far and I saved 50 euros on them. I think there are always offers on the classics in their outlet.
Oh, good question! Is there a way for me to check this without opening them up completely? I do know the drivers and the internal wiring are balanced. Not sure if that helps regarding compatibility in other shells.
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It’s the last time I promise), but my recently attained information suggests that it’s not about the devices ability to drive the headphone as much as it is about how it impacts the dynamic range, which is why you’d be buying high impedance headphones.