I'm doing daw - no really, and I need advice

The Lounge General Discussion
#1

Okay, so believe it or not, but I’m actually going to dig deep into learning a daw now.

Without getting too much into reasons why, let’s just say I’m in the state where I’ve made up my mind to give this my most serious effort ever. I’m picking between three, and my need is just the keyboard (my Extra Deluge MFG) and the computer. For everything. Including mix and master. I won’t go for Ableton, because it’s too close to my old workflow and I want to try something new now.

So I’m looking at Logic, Reason or Luna. I’ve given all three a brief go, but would love your opinions before I commit. I’ve browsed them all, but these three caught my attention the most.

Logic - the workflow makes total sense to me, and I’ve quickly learned how to put something together in it. The sounds I get out of it sound good and I’m totally into the linearity of it. It is perhaps not so much of a sample manipulator, at least not on its own, and I do enjoy tweaking my samples. So it does seem more like a classic workstation thing, which I’m not entirely sure I’ll enjoy in the long run. Ironically, this might be because why I’m already sort of gelling with it. But I wonder if the more experimental part of me would miss that sample sound design part of it.

Luna - the fact that it focuses on the recording and song writing, fits me perfectly, and has such a strong tendency towards the finished product. Also great. It would require a stronger reliance on external gear for me, which I don’t want right now, but its approach is spot on. I do wonder if it’s too limited in terms of onboard instruments, though, since I only want to use my keyboard as external hardware.

Reason - put simply, if I had time, space and money, I’d probably build a studio that works like Reason. With less gear, perhaps, but it would work like Reason. Having said that, I’m still scratching my head, thinking “Where does this go? And how do I get this to work?” Which seems to be the case in many studios I’ve visited though, as if the engineer showed up for the first time as well.

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#2

Do you want to use only included instruments or do you plan on using External Plugins?

Ah, and first to ask about bitWig that comes with an awesome Modular Engine.

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#3

I’m a Reason (12) user and have been since it came out. I’m totally habituated and so will likely hang on to the death. I can’t really recommend it to a newcomer though. The Reason 12 release has been a farce IMO and it is still pretty buggy. The development of the DAW itself has ground to a halt.

If you can get a cheap version then the rack plugin brings the rack to any DAW (instruments, fx, players etc)

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#4

Everything depends in what is your goal in using a DAW.

It seems like you want to use it mainly as an arranger/mixing platform to finish and polish songs. It that case I’d try Logic or Luna because as you said their workflow is designed to do that.

Between the two, if you are into the UAD echosystem and have some of the console emulations I’d give Luna a try. If not I’ll go for Logic because it stock plugins are already really good and it won’t be needed to start buying plugins from the ground up.

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#5

If I had a mac I would go with Logic and judging from your post it seems like it’s the best of the three for you because the workflow makes the most sense. That’s pretty important.

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#6

I’ve never used Luna, but have used most other DAWs - and have gotten my head around them at least enough to write (hopefully) useful tutorials about them.

Of the two you’ve listed with which I have experience, I would personally recommend Logic, though Reason is pretty great these days. Why? Because it’s inexpensive and a one-time purchase for the foreseeable future. It’s also fully capable of anything you can do in any other DAW. While you might not think of it as a sample-mangler, you can do anything in Logic that you can do anywhere else. They recently introduced an updated sampler, thgh I have yet to check it out. I personally find Logic to be a very uninviting environment, but I can still use it and make full productions with it. Like Reason, Logic has all the instruments and effects you need.

However, there are a couple of caveats. To keep Logic up-to-the-minute with the latest version, Apple expects you to upgrade your system regularly. This can be a pain, especially if you use lots of other software that might not be so quickly updated to work with a new OS.

The other caveat is that Logic is AU-only. You’ll not be using VSTs without some kind of wrapper. Usually this isn’t a problem as most plugs are available as AU and, as I said, Logic itself has a vast number of included tools.

Reason does, too. I like the rack approach (I’m old, and that’s how I am used to working) and the included instruments and effects are very good and cover all the ground you’ll need. If I had any complaints about Reason, they would include the sequencer itself (which can feel clunky to me), and the fact that I get a few too many emails from them hawking seemingly endless sales and add-ons.

You really can’t lose with either. Logic’s learning curve is, in my experience, a bit steeper. Logic feels more like a place to get work done, whereas Reason feels like a well-equipped studio to have fun in. Both approaches have their merits.

Having said that, I recently got a new Mac for the studio, when installing the software I intended to use, I did not include Reason, but did include Logic. (though my main DAW is Cubase, with Bitwig and Renoise as more experimental secondary DAWs).

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#8

Reaper is the best

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#9

Spend some time with Logic’s Sampler and Quick Sampler which came out last year, also the step sequencer. Not sure what else you’d ever need…

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#10

Logic packs everything you would ever need from a music recording/production environment.
Great internal instruments as well. No need for extra plugins.
I just go with ableton cause Logic is more traditional daw while ableton has more instrument/groovebox feeling

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#11

Of the three you mentioned, I would go with Logic. It‘s a good balance and well rounded.

But I’m still going to say Ableton, because even though you say it is similar to your current workflow, you don’t have to use the clip view, you can use the arranger view and use it as a traditional DAW.

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#12

I’d say give Renoise a shot. The workflow was top notch, personally. And the amount of things you can do with it for 65 dollars is stupid cool

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#13

Exactly… Logic has it all, unless you prefer Ableton Session View. Logic has its version of Session View, but it doesn’t work nearly as well.

Luna is much more expensive than Logic after you buy all the extensions and instruments. If you already own a Mac, Logic is very much a no brainer.

The only reason I could see someone choosing Luna over Logic is if you tend to gravitate to the most expensive thing… but I’m sure @circuitghost wouldn’t do that… :wink:

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#14

If I was banned from using Ableton Live for some awful reason, I would go for Bitwig over the other DAWs. Didn’t get on with Logic, however it was a while ago and I was a complete novice. I wouldn’t go near Luna.

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#15

:innocent:

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#16

I really like Renoise and Reaper. Absurd bang for buck out of both.

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#17

Great advice, you all. I really appreciate it.

I’m going for Logic. I’m thinking like this -

I kind of get already how it works. I’ve heard some stuff made in it, using only Logic, no external gear at all, that sounds great.

Once I’m familiar enough with it, I might check out options, when I sort of better understand what working in a computer-centered environment means. But somehow, it just makes sense to me when I move around in it, so I’ll go for that now and see where it takes me.

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#18

Logic is a beast :+1:

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#19

all in all, most daws only differ in detail. The usual features you‘d want from a daw are available in all of them.
Logic is great. Just get going :slightly_smiling_face:

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#20

A disclaimer, I’m quite a visual person. I have all the DAWs you mentioned and more.

Personally, if you are coming from a hardware perspective, I would opt for Reason 12 AND (this is very important) another stable daw (then use Reason as a plug in inside of it). I have been a Reason user since version 1 and it is still my favourite daw. Don’t worry if you don’t get your head around the rack immediatelly, if you are coming from hardware you will be in heaven in no time. You can literally make any gear combination you can think of and control everything with CV - also looks great and vintage in my opinion. But… the latest updates changed the main code so much it might take till another full version (13), to get everything working like they envisioned for this update. Also the sequencer is ancient. It gets the job done and holds most of the features, but GUI ergonomics of it are questionable at this point. Also note that VST support inside Reason as it is currently is still not the best, but it does the job in most cases.

Reaper is cheap and does every job amazingly, but it’s fugly in my opinion.

Lately I have been using Bitwig a lot and it does make sense, but the inability to apply themes to it and the creations inside the grid gets on my nerves.

FL Studio is very good for the money (life time free updates), but has some non standard approaches to workflow (which might actually be good for you).

Studio One is in my opinion similar to Logic, and between the two I would get Logic since you are on the Mac. Logic is very good for getting things done quickly and with no fuss, but I’ve experienced it to be unpolished in the last few updates, which is strange of Apple and makes me worried. It is also not the best daw to go in and play with sound design in my opinion (since you are coming from hardware).

If you are not too scared to work inside of a tracker, go for Renoise - I don’t have any single complaint on that one, except that it might be a long time before it gets a native M1 port.

In any case all of these can be trialed. I recommend you do not purchase before the trial periods end, so you really make the right decision. I kind of don’t mind having as many daws as most provide different workflows and ideas. This tends to diversify what I make in each. Kind of like owning several different pieces of gear that do similar things :slight_smile:

Good luck!

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#21

Bitwig here. Modulation heaven. In a lot of cases I much prefer to apply an LFO than to automate a parameter.

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