Learning Model:Cycles, beginner's questions

[Fin25]

@ja

I’ve noticed that the presets in my previously saved patterns change. I save them where I want to be but the sounds are sometimes different when I return. Is this because I used the same presets in other patterns and the changes I made there affected the patterns that the presets were in before? I thought I was simply saving the patterns, not saving-over presets along with them… How do I save patterns without affecting the presets within other patterns?

So I’ve just managed to replicate a very similar issue.
I’ve got a tone machine running a Bassline on track 5, it’s fine until I switch from another pattern, which causes said patch to change a fair bit. Problem is rectified by hitting T5, which somehow returns the patch to normal.
Interestingly, if I copy the pattern exactly and switch between them, no change, it’s only if the track has a different sound between patterns that I get this behaviour, and it’s only happened with this one patch.

[captain8]

weird please report that one

[Fin25]

Will do, just running a few checks to see if I can get to the bottom of it first.

[ja]

@Fin25

Interestingly, if I copy the pattern exactly and switch between them, no change, it’s only if the track has a different sound between patterns that I get this behaviour, and it’s only happened with this one patch.

Excellent description of the issue. This is what’s happening for me, except with 4 or 5 patches in 4 separate patterns. All of these patterns are contained in one project, if that’s even relevant.
The manual says these presets become independent copies that are glued to the pattern. If they are truly independent, changes on one would not affect the other…
3 people in this thread (so far) have experienced this glitch. It’s probably happening to many more. Likely just a matter of who is noticing.

[Zac]

I have noticed this happening occasionally but I’m new to hardware so thought it was expected behaviour or something I’m doing.

[TheOfiS]

About the save thing… If this works the same as the Model:Samples I save projects only when switching between projects

Just powering off the machine should save the current project, and I can confirm it works that way

[ja]

This is definitely something that should not be happening. It’s just a matter of time until more users notice it.
Hopefully this issue is resolved in the next firmware update. I want to be able to return to my projects as I left them.

[PentalagusMusic]

Thank you folks for looking into this more. So I wasn’t tripping.
Could be a bigger problem if we start chaining patterns. Actually, what if that’s intentional? What if it’s a way to keep some similarities on tracks when you swap between patterns to keep a smoother flow? Or if it’s not intentional, I wonder if there’s a way we could use this bug in this manner?

While we’re at it and since this is a beginner questions thread; is there a way to clear tweaks to knobs that were recorded live?

[pselodux]

I can’t say I’ve noticed that issue… Is it as though the next pattern hasn’t correctly loaded all of the parameters for the new sound? How can I replicate this on my machine?

[Fin25]

I have no idea how to replicate it. I’ve spent quite a while this weekend trying to replicate it again and no luck. I even built two identical patterns in identical places to the ones where the bug occurred and it didn’t happen again.
The thing that confuses me is that you can fix the issue by hitting the “broken” sound’s pad, suggesting that the problem might be with the sequencer rather than the sound engine, but this being Elektron, the boundaries between the two are somewhat blurred.
Anyway, I’m going to report it to Elektron later so they can have a look into it.

[Fin25]

Here’s a little video illustrating the issue. Apologies for the sound quality, it’s not the best, but illustrates the issue.

21 September 2020

So I start on pattern 11, all is well, then transition to track 12, where the bass sounds wrong so hit the associated track pad to return it to its intended state. It behaves this way if I switch between any of the previous 11 patterns but not any of the patterns from 13 onwards.

I’ve checked all parameters in both states, and they are the same values. It’s clearly affecting the pitch, as well as other parameters that are less clear on the recording.

[pselodux]

Hmm, very strange!

[LyingDalai]

Please contact support.

Could it be that somehow the oscillators are out of phase?
I guess all it needs is a phase resync when new pattern starts playing.

[Fin25]

That seems feasible.

Am doing the support ticket now.

EDIT: Submitted.

[dtr]

@LyingDalai

By the way, unlike other Elektron machine, the Model series doesn’t keep the current state in memory (nor the new saved state btw) if you don’t power it off gently, with the power button.
If you unplug the PSU while it’s on, it will reboot with the state of the last time you switched it off slowly! Be careful with brutal PSU unplugging (or power strip switching off in my case): you’ll loose some work!

Ugh this is a hard one getting used to. I’ve been switching all my instruments with one power strip switch for years. Now I have to remember turning off the M:C separately…

But please sanity check me here. Just started toying with my new M:C. I think I’m seeing that when I edit a pattern, then save it to project with func+config (held long, not the short click temp save) and then power it off via power strip, when I start it up again my edited pattern has not been saved. Is this because I should have explicitly saved the project too? Is this not required when turning off via the M:C button?

[LyingDalai]

I have to check this, but I was under the impression that neither the pattern nor the project were saved if you power the M:C off with the power strip (which I also use, of course, and it’s become an habit).
This has to be tested further and confirmed.

I asked @eangman to write such precisions in the manual, because there are several levels of saving, and it is not consistant between the machines.

The Elektron documentation thread

@eangman An interessant precision to be added in every manual: what is saved or not exactly when turning off the machine when saving a project when factory resetting the machine I often see questions such as “when are Song/Pattern/Kits/Parts/Sounds saved?” and it would be nice to lift any ambiguities on this subject, IMO.

[dtr]

@LyingDalai

I asked @eangman to write such precisions in the manual, because there are several levels of saving, and it is not consistant between the machines.

Yes indeed. Just went through it again to make sure I hadn’t read over it.

[dtr]

Testing results:

• edit patterns + save patterns + external power off = patterns not saved

• edit patterns + save project + external power off = patterns not saved

• edit patterns + save pattern + save project + external power off = patterns not saved

• edit patterns + internal power off = patterns saved (though I expect not when switching projects)

So it seems it retains nothing if not turned off with the internal button. That’s counter-intuitive. When there are explicit save functions available I expect it to work regardless of the power down method.

@eangman This is really something I would expect to find in the manual. And the behavior of older boxes is by far preferable to this…

[LyingDalai]

This is what I had observed.
On M:C you HAVE TO use the blue button to switch off and save. There is no other way to save.
I already lost many hours of tweaking because of this.

I talked about it to Elektron, but what I understood is that so far there seems to be no solution to prevent this.

[dtr]

Seems to me if they can have it save the project state on power button press it should be possible when selecting the project save function in the menu. Maybe the hardware doesn’t allow it without a glitch or stop in audio/sequencer? I could live with that.