Hi friends,
I’m using a RME Fireface UC and Ableton as my midi clock master. I’ve got a Rytm and a MnM. I had the MnM connected via the Rytm’s Thru port, and I was experiencing a 5ms difference between the two, an audibly noticeable difference.
I thought maybe it was the Thru chain, so I connected one to Midi out 1 on the RME and the other on Midi out 2, same difference. I have to set one to -5ms from the other.
Has anyone else seen this happen?!?!
Hi Ivkt,
I think this difference isn’t a problem of the midi chain. More likely it depends on your monitoring via Live’s master. Try to monitor your maschines direktly from RME’S input.
Greetz!
Only now just had the chance to look into this further.
I can confirm this is not audio latency. This is midi. I have a single midi cable connecting my AR and MnM, and audio out to my mixer. No computers nor interfaces. I have the same lag. The MnM is always late by around 16 ms. I must be missing something. Please help.
Maybe check the cable. Otherwise, I’d recommend:
http://www.elektronauts.com/t/innerclock-syncgen-2-synclock/18567
Hmm. I’ve never seen a midi cable do that before.
I would eventually like to have a sync-lock, but I shouldn’t need it simply for syncing an AR and a MnM with a single cable. I would assume if this were an normal issue with the devices, more people would be upset about it. I guess I’ll try a reset. If anyone else has any ideas, please share.
I should also correct - it’s 5ms late to be precise.
Oops, I missed that you tried running things without Ableton, and still had issues. Let me know what you find out; I plan on pairing my Monomachine (once it arrives) with my AR, and would hate to have the lag you’re describing. I didn’t notice anything in LEM’s Soundcloud demo, and nobody else who’s used this setup mentioned anything. That’s what leads me to believe there must be an issue with the midi cable. If you ultimately want to integrate Ableton, I’d still recommend that box though because Ableton has a lousy reputation when it comes to midi tightness with external hardware.
5ms is probably within a normal tolerance range… when using a cable and different devices, etc.
it would be tough to notice 5ms without an analytical tool id think
anything >10ms is pretty bad yeah, but 5 or under should be negligible
5 ms or whatever it is, the delay is extremely noticeable. It affects the groove quite a bit. It does not sound good. I’m critical because I’m a drummer, but this is not up to standard.
I know it’s not the cable. I have many cables and I have slaved both machines from other midi masters, in every combination. The MnM is always late, and if I have drums playing from both machines, it sounds like shite. 
And if you don’t think 5ms makes a difference, open Ableton and put a 4/4 kick on one track, 16th note hats on another, expose Track Delay, and move one track back and forth 5ms. Sad techno bunny.
well if you can hear it, then its not good
but midi sync issues are one of the most common problems out there… also quite tough to solve much of the time
do you have any other devices you could test to see if there is a delay?
I’ve heard from others the sync in the older elektrons are quite bad, and 5ms is indeed unacceptable - especially considering you’re not involving a computer. That being said - I cannot say anything else than that every time I try syncing things I almost always run into nasty unsolvable problems. I have solved it by giving up - the only time I use sync is to trigger a recording session.
What does Elektron say? They are still selling the MnM so they obviously must have some support for it.
Have you checked out Innerclocks measurements? They have always been a bit of a reference guide to me.
http://www.innerclocksystems.com/New%20ICS%20Litmus.html
/C
No problems with my MnM but I dont uses DAWs with their obviously well documented problem with midi sync.
Just checked mine, with Tempest master into MnM, locked solid.
Have you tried reversing the thru conection?
Yeah, good point. I’ll try testing both against my MPC1000 today.
I’m still waiting to hear back from Elektron. I hope they are familiar with this.
I will have a look at innerclocks, thanks!
Are you using USB or firewire to connect the RME interface? USB does not do a constant stream, it always transfers data in packets, which can cause negligible lag or delay for most applications. MIDI is not one of them. Firewire/Thunderbolt are a constant stream of data.
For less headache, I would advise avoiding MIDI sync to ableton. Use a hardware clock, then put the BPM into your Ableton project after the fact to sync it together. Then, if you need to do an overdub it’s easy to sync to Ableton and can nudge the audio file to compensate for latency.
The way I have my setup (RYTM + MnM), I send USB from the computer to my RYTM, then use a DIN MIDI cable from the RYTM to the MnM to sync them. And I have the audio output of the MnM (stereo out) going into the Stereo input of the RYTM.
So when I press Play on the RYTM, the Monomachine also plays; transport is connected. And when I record the RYTM, it’s also recording the Monomachine. (Just a temporary setup.)
The tracking has never been off at all. Sounds perfect with my current orientation. No latency.
So maybe you need to forego whatever you’re using to connect to your Machinedrum, and instead, sync it to the RYTM as master clock.
The RYTM is going to play better with your DAW than the Monomachine/Machinedrum will. Because with your Silver boxes, you’re either using an iffy MIDI port on an interface (which may suck) or some iffy USB to MIDI/DIN interface (which might also suck).
Let the Black boxes be the MIDI master to the Silver ones! Sync is rock solid.
This is affecting a direct MIDI connection between AR out and MnM in, or vice versa. 5 ms delay on the MnM always. No computer or interface required.
Also, sync is fine. There is no jitter. It’s simply hitting late.
How are you sure that it is a 5ms delay? Are you measuring this somehow? Or figuring this by ear?
How are you sure that it is a 5ms delay? Are you measuring this somehow? Or figuring this by ear?[/quote]
I’ve done it 2 ways.
Firstly, I just had a gig where I played 10 or 11 tracks that I’ve put together over the last month on the MnM / AR. I had my MnM coming in through certain channels in Ableton and my AR coming in through other channels, and I was also DJing released tracks as Ableton clips. The AR was in sync with Ableton’s metronome and the other audio clips. The MnM was not. I had to correct the MnM channels by -6ms.
I also demonstrated it by taking drum hits on the AR and adjusting the microtiming of the trigs forward by 1. Only then were they in time with the MnM.
So the adjustments I had to make gave me the conclusive number of 5-6ms.
You are obviously experiencing latency, but the best and easiest way to know exactly what’s the shift in ms, you simply need to record something 4 on the floor from both machines to separate audio tracks in a DAW while they are both in sync. Then just zoom in and see how much shift there is.
Also - you can check if there is drift. I would record a full minute or so and compare the beginning shift to the end shift.