A4 is connected via USB to PC, DAW - latest Ableton Live (9.1.7) which is generating the Midi Sync to the Elektron A4 (slave) via USB.
While TEMPO button is pressed in A4 - you can see the received tempo in real-time from the DAW: the tempo has a huge (> 1BPM) constantly changing drifting, so the tempo offset in A4 is not constant, but it is changing over the time.
120BPM tempo was setup in Ableton, BUT A4 was receiving it for some seconds as 119.4, then it can be 120.6 for some seconds, then it could change to something more accurate and so on. So max >1BPM drifting in general.
I have read tons of forum subjects, people are complaining on a few 0,1bpm micro drifting, but not 1BMP. Some people via forums were telling , that Elektron support has explained it as A4 tempo engine displaying inaccuracy and it has no impact on sound or functionality. BUT in my case this is not true, while the DELAY effect is enabled - you can clearly hear the tempo drifting impact, as if it “Delay time” parameter would be manually changed in Delay FX page, if you turn off the Sync - the delay effect is not drifting anymore (so this is not the LFO really or smth ). So it has the impact to the sound.
I have tried different DAW - latest FLStudio, i’ve tried MIDI syncing via MIDI cable which was connected to my Presonus Audiobox USB interface - the same. I’ve tried totally different laptop PC - the same. Midi Sync delay compensation settings in Ableton have no impact on drift.
If i setup the A4 as a master, and the Ableton Live is receiving the midi sync clock - then the drifting is a few 0,2BMP max, but in the opposite way - it is a disaster.
So once again the summary:
PROBLEM: more than 1BMP MIDI sync drifting while DAW is a master, the drifting has an impact on sound (e.x. the delay fx applied to the track is drifting to the tempo). Tried syncing via USB, via MIDI Cables - the same result. Tried different PC with a different USB Audio device - the same prob. Tried different USB, MIDI cables - the same.
To be honest, i have no practice on syncing the hardware synths, but in this case i’m unhappily surprised.
Could you please help/comment/suggest ?
remove the buss delay and your problem should dissapear. Live cant compensate for the delay and never will (its got something to do with how it was written) - it only applies to sends though. Everything else should be able to be compensated for.
So what happens if you disable midi clock and only receive transport start and stop on the Analog Four?
Might give you some offset for each recording but that’s easy to fix afterwards since it’s constant.
Of course this isn’t optimal if your Live project has tempo changes and you do have to manually set the BPM to match in the project and on your A4, but anyways, might just do the tick since your DAW + hardware seems to have serious midi jitter problems.
As i mentioned, i get the same problem while syncing A4 with other DAWs, FLStudio as an e.x. So it is not just the Ableton problem. Other users does not have the same issues.
Do you mean the Midi Sync delay compensation in Ableton Midi Sync settings ? This does not help, i believe this options will help if you have a constant tempo offset, but not the wavy drifts. So the delay compensation is not the clue.
Your suggestion is a temporal option really, thanks for the idea. But yes, i need a tempo changes to be sent to A4, so i really need the DAW as a master sync.
I’m not sure if the cause of the issue is a PC midi jitter problems. Are there any ways to check it ? I do not have another hardware synth to check with, but my MIDI controllers haven’t got any issue with a sync. Moreover, the problem does exist on different systems (PC, laptop), on different physical connection technologies: USB cables and MIDI cables, so there is a huge possibility, that the jitter appears at the A4 itself not at the PC side.
you will find this out with every peace of gear, if you’re watching a tempo display while it’s in slave mode…
…as long the midi clock is accurate and free of any xtra latency usb plug in compensation frickle that causes latencies on top, that is NO problem at all…
and it’s been always like that, since day one of this serial protocol…and all records you like, where midi hardware is involved, was produced like and with THAT…
Sorry for my grunge attitude and for being draggy, i really don’t have a practice on midi syncing the analog gear, the A4 is my first purchased analog synth.
But it seemed very suspicious for me, when googling on the same problem people are complaining on the small drift: some people just mention the abstract term “small”, others are providing inaccuracy of 0.2BMP from Ableton as master, but not 1BPM!!, that is why i suspected something is wrong with my A4.
So once again, please confirm - the max of 1BPM of wavy (constantly changing) MIDI sync offset drift from the DAW is a normal thing ?
It’s normal and, presumming you can live with it, nothing to be concerned over.
My Elektron displays are typically in the, for example, 119.6 to 120.4 range. It’s not really an issue for me as everything remains in sync. My vst tracks in Live don’t phase out of time with what my Elektron’s are doing.
Depending on what you are doing musically, Live could be a pain in the arse for you. I’ve always found it great and I can live with the very small latency I have experienced in terms of audio from midi slaved devices.
Registered the issue to Elektron support, and just now received a reply from Martin, he confirmed, that in case of A4 and midi syncing over usb the 1BPM drifintg is not acceptable. Will continue investigating the issue with him…
Hey there,
Im using an analog 4 and an analog rytm with or without DAW. I had the same Problem with both machines when they where slave. BPM fluctuations up to 3 BMP higher. I cant understand why even the direct communication between two machines can be so unstable.
Was there any solution for this issue?
I didn’t read all the comments, but if you wanna solve your sync issue, ELEKTRON has a FREE SOLUTION it’s called OVERBRIDGE. download, install, problem solved no more sync problems
took about 10 minutes to install both Ableton & Overbridge & set up a template, is that too hard? if so, you could consider ditching Ableton since its sloppy midi clock is causing this issue…
Anyone tried this yet? Much cheaper than its big brother (without the ofset knobs etc) but could be a tidy solution… Im guessing you’d disable sync altogether with Ableton and overbridge if using something like this?
Like djrem3000 mentioned, it is a general problem that occurs when the machine is receiving the MIDI clock
Im not going to get an ridiculously expensive MIDI Sync Box just to connect two or three Elektron machines that are ment to work as a unity. Its called Dark Trinity! If I had to connect a bunch of machines i could understand its necessary.
Thanks to LarsErik for the solution to set it on transport only start and stop. Even though the problem isnt solved completely (global BPM changes not possible), I can at least work with it now.
In the moment Im waiting for an answer of Elektron support. If they have some solution Ill let you guys know.
^ hey dood, didn’t realise this was your thread?! Think we’re all jus spitballin some ideas for everyone’s mutual benefit… Hope Hq solve your problems.
seems to me a sync box is just the price of perfect sync without the headaches…
But your correct, it should be that everything in life just works.
I’d rather not buy one. Tho my elektrons sync great together via OB, there unfortunately not on point with abes clock at the minute.
So HQ did respond. Elektron Support says its a bug in the current beta and they’re trying to fix it. So maybe its better to wait a little before buying that MIDI Sync Box
). So it has the impact to the sound.
