They’re also not different when said out loud. 
1 Like
What works for me is getting the individual sounds right at the source.
Having all your drums tuned propermy at the start, and choosing samples to avoid frequency clashing. Does way more than working with eq and compression IMO.
I feel like a lot of music is overproduced these days.
Working on stuff for ages squeezes the life out of it - jam for a while and if IT clicks, it clicks, have fun!
2 Likes
I feel like Ylva doesn’t get that bogged down in stepwise details. They seem more focused on the overall arc and structure of the music - the bigger picture. I definitely aspire to this. Of course I could be wrong, but that’s always been my impression of Ylva.
For me, it’s all about organization and templates. I have zero interest in faffing about with setup, routing, midi mapping, etc, when it’s time for creative flow. I just want to play, have everything ready to rock the second it’s fired up, and be able to find whatever samples I might need in seconds. To enable this flow state, I’ve spent a ton of time developing (Ableton) templates, painstakingly organizing and renaming samples, and re-routing the studio. However, after having put that time in, I rarely need to do more of that. I can just get to playing/recording, without delay.
3 Likes
As someone who recently was 100% in the DAW, I both agree and disagree. Yes, Elektron is very programmatic and I especially hate the process of browsing for and adding sounds to a project. With all those buttons, I could think of so much faster methods for adding 20 sounds in various categories to a project than the constant [left up yes down down yes right down down yes yes] process that a Digit*** requires.
But when it comes to ‘discovering’ a song in the middle of a jam session, they are just incredible. My creativity and, perhaps even more importantly, the fun I have when goofing around with ctrl+all on patterns, is something that would just be impossible to achieve in the DAW. It’s such a different experience to me, and so much more rewarding. But yes, occasionally frustrating too.
2 Likes
For me, a big part of what makes me save time in the process of going from an idea to a song is to think simpler at the beginning of the process: use fewer sounds!
A friend and I had a song we worked on and were quite proud of back in January this year, where we spent countless hours (probable more than 50 hours) of time mixing it because it just wouldn’t sound very good. In the end, it just wasn’t fun anymore.
I got the Digitone a few weeks back and as I was starting to goof around with it, I made an embryo of a song on it and had fun with the live jamming aspects of it by turning knows, ctrl+all on patterns and other things just as a fun thing. I then recorded a live take into the DAW, cut a few things here and there and sent it to my friend for some feedback (basically “is this worth continuing to work on?”). The fascinating thing is that not only did he like the song, but he said it sounded really good in his car (our hardest test for the other song we were mixing)!
So what was different? Aside from being a lot more fun and spontaneous in the way this Digitone song came to be, it was MUCH more simplistic. Basically it’s a drum track, a monophonic bass, and an arp, and that’s it. This offered me tons of shortcuts:
- What’s actually in the song better be decent because I couldn’t conceal its flaws by layering a ton of other shit on top of it.
- The simplicity puts way more emphasis on how the sounds evolve over time, so I had lots of fun jamming with the filters etc and it worked well because of how clean the track was.
- Fewer sounds mean more room for reverb and delay. This is a constant problem with too much going on in a track.
- Because very few collisions happens in the frequency spectrum when you are working with no more than 3 sounds at the same time, mixing is a breeze.
I listened to the song from January again today and my immediate reaction was that it is just too darn crowded. There are too many sounds competing for the same previous frequency range and it clearly does not work no matter how many surgical EQ drops you place across each synth.
7 Likes
I think the trick is to find a style of music that doesn’t have the hyper-edited micro-managed aesthetic built into it. Then you can build a setup that is mostly improvisation, leave the tapes running, and do minimal edits if you want to make a recorded track. Natural to do with dub or some kinds of techno or lo-fi house. Difficult to do with future bass or IDM or drill n bass.
6 Likes
Yes your right. The Genres do matter hugely on micro management. Some are easier than others. +1.
1 Like
And it’s not even about hifi/lo-fi - in interviews I’ve read Ricardo Villalobos (who I think makes some of the cleanest and detailed mixes in electronic music) talks about making tracks from recorded live sessions.
4 Likes
Choosing great samples (assuming you use a sample-based approach) is really important. If the sample already sounds great, well balanced, and sits in a mix as it is, you’ll have to do much less work in the late stages of music making.
I’d also suggest taking the time to setup (or have a skilled friend setup) a great mastering chain that will clean things up without too much fuss. A compressor (SSL buss style always works; multiband is great too if you know how to set it up), a clean EQ with a low cut around 20Hz to control sub lows and a nice smooth high shelf set to taste per song (FabFilter ProQ is really great for this), and a tape-emulation plugin will all help to get things sounding great quite easily.
I also echo the idea that if you want the creative flow state without getting bogged down, it makes a lot of sense to find a mixing/mastering engineer to help with the finishing stages.
2 Likes
First. I need to learn my gear. It usually takes me about a year of using something before I can actually get down and make music with it. Before that point, its all just learning,jamming,dicking around.
My work flow is based on ditching the computer after getting sick of microediting and all the faffing on the computer. I want music to be fun, and get my ideas down quickly.
I dont use stems. If I use loops, its loops of something I resampled from my gear in realtime. If use samples, they are usually drums or background textures.
I have a dedicated instrument for each job. So a bass synth, a polysynth, a drum machine, a sampler. I’ll spend a while messing around until ive got a hook or a bassline or something that I like. Then I flesh out the rest until Ive got 2 or 3 patterns. Work on the sounds, get the mix sounding as good as I can then I record a live take straight from the mixer. If its good enough, its finished. I dont touch it again.
So really, I dont do much production at all. I concentrate on the making music bit. As soon as I starting nodding my head along to what ever Ive made, thats it. Done. Move on.
If I dont like something Ive made. I delete it.
Thats it. Very simple.
All this is predicated on years of practicing composition, mixing, production etc.
12 Likes
Lots of good advice in this thread! Here’s a few more random thoughts on the subject.
-As someone else alluded to earlier, being efficient and being lazy can pair well. A bit of extra work up front can enable you to slack off a whole lot later, maybe indefinitely. And I mean that in a positive way.
-If you approach your mixer like the rest of your gear and play it like an instrument to its full potential you can just record a stereo track (per buss maybe) and most of your post production is already done.
-Your tracks are finished whenever you say they are. Unless you’re intending to press to vinyl and there are physical dynamic limitations you get to make the rules.
3 Likes
This is a set up that sounds economical and fun. I know your sampler 
But what are your other 3 weapons of destruction?
I have a collection. But I’ll only use 3 things at a time.
So currently DN TR8S SH101.
I also have OT Sub37, monotribe, MS20, Lyra8, SV1, DFAM. DT.
2 Likes
RULE 8: Don’t try to create and analyze at the same time. They’re different processes.
I’m not sure if this is the issue for you, but compounding the roles of Creator and Producer can be a difficult way to work. I’ve run plenty of promising ideas into the ground by chasing details when I should have been focusing on the bigger picture. I liked what @craig said about A/Bing stuff quickly, but you might also consider untangling the roles completely: creative sessions where you only write music and analytical sessions where you only improve the music that you’ve written. I find that each role is more rewarding when it gets its own space.
If you’re not into micromanagement, I would also consider reaching for production tools that are quick and easy to use: tilt EQ, compressors with limited controls (LL-2A, 1176, SSL G-Bus) and stripped-down versions of plugins (Echo Boy Jr.). If you can get 90% of the way there without painstaking attention to detail, that might be a pretty good tradeoff for you.
3 Likes
Just step away from making music for a while. If you have other interests, give them some more time. I find a periodic hiatus is almost necessary, for me at least. A chance to focus elsewhere and then return with fresh eyes and ears.
2 Likes
Quite an old thread but anyway, in my case, I often get stuck in programming or producing and “mixing” in Ableton, and after some time I sometimes can’t see in my music what I could see easily in other’s.
I think I work much better when jam with a friend, it’s more organic and both can see what to get rid of, if something works or not, where to go, change the arrangement…
I even have some loops and I don’t know what to do with them, so they are like busy drafts or ideas that may become a track in the right hands, but at this moment I just can’t do it by myself lol. For example:
I’m thinking about how to find people who likes to do that work and do something together. And then maybe send it to mix and master.
3 Likes
My problem is absolutely networking into similar weirdos who aren’t already engaged wall to wall with projects and life.
Currently, I’m working on dysfunctions in the time domain that are keeping my own projects down, and that can help give a better base to share with others.
Jamming with friends is awesome, but not always available.
Yeah, doing everything myself is harrrrrd considering the disciplines I need to cover. I like aspects of the struggle and how they inform composition, but I’d rather have a place and be able to develop one skill into ease of proficiency from hours of dedicated study.
1 Like
Ask yourself what your goals are—is having absolutely polished music your goal? Or can you live with creative and a “listenable” mix?
I try to integrate mixing into my arrangement. Even though modern tech ITB box allows for it, I just avoid frequency overlap from the second sample I find/patch I create and live within that limitation so I don’t have to so as much mixing with the surgical/dynamic EQ, sidechaining, automation etc.
1 Like
Actually micro Management is not always needed nor ever. Coming from recording Instruments I can say if its done right and played well very little mixing should be needed. If you want an overproduced pop track then shure you need to manage the hell out of it.
But something original doesn‘t need that.
I know its not strictly electronic and I know its Mastered well but listen to the first Bon Iver and the first thom york solo records.
3 Likes
Yeah, that’s true for sure, now I’m going to spend more time jamming and improvising, anyway both things help to improve each other.