What are you finding for granular stuff? After a couple quick jams, gemini has been fun. I can see it being good for effected vocal / background ambiance as part of a more structured track. At least, that’s how my mind is working at the moment. Whoa, I just looked at some videos for cranes and now I gotta try that out.
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I’m using glut now, with the grid, though. Most of the stuff with the grid is still a bit confusing for me, but I can hear when I work it, that it’ll generate results I’ll like. But it’s a bit intimidating to fire something up that doesn’t explain itself - at all - and try to figure it out by just pushing buttons. That look all the same 
This, however, was how I once learned the piano. And that turned out pretty well. So I like the challenge.
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I’ve spent the better evening now with Takt and the grid as an interface to it.
I’m not kidding when I say it’s the Digitakt, but with stereo samples, song mode, workflow’s a lot faster (for a gent like me, that is) and the sound engine is fantastic.
And it samples, too. Also, in stereo. While many applications on the Norns seem to do a specific thing and zoom in on that, this is a mature and deep groove box, grid style. It’s so impressive I’m flabbergasted, and I don’t use that word lightly, since it’s a very silly but powerful word at the same time.
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Ive heard good things about takt, but this assessment really puts it in perspective for me. Gonna do some youtube research.
You won’t find much there. Videos
showing Norns doing anythin else than mlr are scarce, or brief demos of other apps.
Overall, even when you put the time in, finding good demos of this is difficult.
thanks for tip - i have noticed that about much of norns.
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I put together my Fates board during the weekend and was a super easy and fun DIY project. I didn’t have much soldering experience so I went with the pre-solder SMD kit and the through-hole components were very smooth.
Now, after some small exploration of the Norns ecosystem, I’m confirming my suspicion that you need a grid (DIY or not) to really get the most out of it. There are some DIY threads on Lines, but still need to research more to see how feasible or beginner-friendly they are.
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I agree. Some of the best applications make very clever use of the grid. Takt, Loom, Animation and Timber come to mind, to mention just a few.
Of course! I just convinced myself that I don’t need a grid… yet. I spent 30-45 minutes playing with awake last night, adding master reverb (too much probably). It was so soothing, it started putting me to sleep. I recorded a 24-second clip and ran it through gemini for some granular destruction. Gemini is fun, but I definitely want to find a better / different granular processing program. I’m starting to get used to the interfacing, using the tape function and the overall workflow. I think the biggest hurdle (and why I should wait to get a grid) is the overall lack of time. Working at home while also taking care of two little kids is exhausting and doesn’t leave a lot of room for the pursuit of hobbies. norns, along with model:cycles have been great escapes when I can sneak 20-30-40 minutes to jam. Pretty much turn them on and go.
I strongly agree… and I think this is often underplayed on Lines.
I first ran Norns on a raspberry PI (within a week or two of release) and then later got a FATES (prototype, so I could develop Orac for it) - and frankly, Ive never really gelled with Norns, never really found a ‘place for it’.
without the grid, I felt I lacked this ‘sense of purpose’ - sure, there are some patches that only use the display, or are midi enabled - but non really excited me or felt unique.
I did develop a Push2 interface for it, but too many things like MLR really depended on 16x8. so wasnt that comfortable to use.
I think norns users w/ grids have a different experience, because MLR makes it useable ‘out of the box’, it has a purpose - also generally more patches just ‘work’ when you have the grid.
perhaps this is also because I have an Organelle (or two 
) , and thats similar in some ways, and feels complete, because I don’t lack an essential part of the UI (grid)… also if I want to ‘write my own patch’, I can do that on that too… so that aspect of Norns is not new either…
thats not to say I don’t like it…
I like the large screen , and I like the fact it uses encoders rather than pots.
I also like the fact it uses Supercollider
(though I do not like its lua integration, I think that ‘overcomplicates’ things )
But we are all different, and for sure the DIY Shield (and FATES) are a nicely priced platform for audio on a rPI.
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definitely disagree with the notion that not having a grid makes norns not worth having. i would say that between things like the cocoquantus emulation script, greyscale reverb, cheat codes/cranes there’s an argument for it being the best “multi fx unit” on the market and well worth even the monome price tag. i have a fates which cost $240-ish to build and at that price the value is just silly
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I do think Norns greatly benefits from an additional control surface, whether Grid or MIDI. The benefit of the Grid is that it’s a standardized layout (64 vs 128 notwithstanding), so scripts work the same for every grid user. MIDI controllers OTOH have different number of controls in wildly varying layouts, and might not even allow remapping CCs. This means that if you want scripts that fully utilize your own MIDI controller, you need to be prepared to at least modify the existing scripts a bit or write new ones. Some scripts do have MIDI learn though which helps a bit.
I think one of the benefits of discussing Norns here on the Elektronauts forum would be to share Elektron specific scripts that everyone could utilize. For example, I’ve been thinking of implementing a “companion app” for the MnM which would use the MnM MIDI channels to 1) sample the MnM outputs using softcut, kind of like MDUW RAM machines and 2) play 1-N MnM channels polyphonically. This would again have the benefit of many people sharing the same control surface.
cocoquantus emulation script - which one?
greyscale reverb - you mean greyhole? this is simply a wrapper around the SC ugen, of the same name… its not unique to norns, I can run on bela or organelle.
cheat codes - I found impenetrable without a grid - does look fun if you have a grid though.
(which even the developer says is ‘highly recommended’)
really?
you’d get a Zoia for less, and Id argue that the Zoia is more approachable and suitable for musicians - e.g. a non-programmer can do things like chain multiple effects.
Zynthian , Mod Devices are releasing Mod Dwarf - have some really good effects and is simple to use since it uses the guitar pedal metaphor.
perhaps it’s the hyperbole around Norns on Lines that puts me off.
(e.g when the Norns first came out, everyone fawned over the reverb - which turned out to just be freeverb, which is on every platform )
but there are some nice patches, and developers have made some of them really attractive
Reels - a nice tape type looper
Passersby - west coast synth
Rebound - fun sequence based on bouncing balls
Dunes - fun sequencer based on ‘commands’
Orca - this is fantastic, but not unique to norns… (honestly, I find it a bit small on norns screen)
all of these (except orca) are quite limited in some ways, but they really look nice, and this draws you in… in a way that reminds me of the OP-1. This is probably the aspect I most enjoy and respect with Norns.
for the price of fates/diy , I think its pretty good value - as really there aren’t many options in the rPI field with a display (Zynthian?)
I think all platforms have a certain vibe… due to the community thats surrounds it.
the patches on the Organelle are very different to the Norns, neither are better than the other (imho). But, I think its this vibe/community is what tends to draw us to one platform or another…what makes us gel, and become enthusiastic.
Personally, I’m just happy we live in a time, where there are many different options (norns, Organelle, Bela, Zynthian, ModDwarf, Daisy) which are all very powerful, and I think reasonably priced - they all have there advantages, its just a matter of deciding which suits you
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As I am using NeoTrellis and a Teensy 4.0 for my own sequencer project, I already have everything to emulate a Grid, and look forward to build my Fates and play around.
What everyone, who thinks about build one him/herself should know: 8 NeoTrellis + Microcontroller + a Case etc. is not for free. You should plan in another 200-300 bucks for it and take the risk that every DIY project has (break, burn, destroy something on the go). So a finished DIY grid with 128 buttons will be more expensive then a working Fates!
It is really sad, that there is only a 32 button neotrellis M4, as this comes ready to use and with a easy to use update mechanism, that everyone can use (connect via USB and copy the firmware into the drive that shows up).
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cool… the diy grids are excellent, some are rgb too -no?
I really like the 16x8 grid form factor - I don’t really needs pads for drumming, so the small ones are fine, and 16 is more useful for sequencers. I really wish we’d see more of them
(preferably rgb, and also pressure sensitivity )
not sure I can build one here easily, I can probably get the neotrellis, but laser cutting for the case gets pretty expensive here 
The neotrellis are rgb but not sensitive. I own a Cnc machine, so I just mill my case out of wood or whatever material I have around.
The m4 comes ready to use with everything in a package. But only 32 Buttons.
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otis is the coco emulation. for me it’s almost worth cost of entry.
i like norns (no grid) a lot more than zoia, especially at the fates pricepoint
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Sorry for the OT, but @thetechnobear - you’re the master of ”open music platforms”, if you will - what’s your favorite?
Here’s another Norns + Grid jam, using the Animator script only on Norns, performed live on the Grid:
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this is awesome
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