I think it has to get redesigned to use the ACE (audio capture engine) API.
ah⌠I see! Yeah Apple is disrupting a lot of software companies with that security measurement (loopback audio is also same problem).
Here is my problem with this. Elektron wants us to buy their latest toys and run their software and their toys are not cheap by any means. Yet, it seems like they are fine with preventing us from using someone elseâs latest toys and software, and not just someone else, but Apple, the company whose products allow Elektron to grow their market share and customer base. I donât want to single out Elektron here. Pioneer, NI, Korg, Roland⌠they are all doing that and they are not small companies by any means, so allocation of resources for driver/software updates is not something that would be a big problem to them. But treating your loyal user base as an afterthought just shows that they do not really care past the point of purchase.
Also what years is this? How is that considered OK to force users to reboot their computers for Overbridge updates? Unloading a kext is not rocket science.
Ironically I was holding off on BigSur, stayed on Mojave, never did Catalina⌠But then RME released improved Big Sur and Apple silicon drivers for my 12 year old Fireface 800!!! which was always cranky on Mojave.
RME managed that real quick. The Fireface is operating better than ever.
3 Likes
You really believe that Elektron doesnât want full Big Sur compatibility?
4 Likes
Arenât there preview versions of new versions of mac os exactly for that purpose? So that developers can sort out those stuff beforehand?
No, I believe that Elektron (and others) do not consider it their priority to make sure their software/drivers work on the day the OS update is released so their existing customers can decide on their own if they want to upgrade or not. If i want to update to Big Sur or buy a new Mac mini with M1 on the day they are released, I expect to be able to do so without being afraid that a piece of my gear that i dropped a substantial amount of money on a few months ago, will no longer work, because the company that makes that gear did not get off their ass in time.
I guess Appleâs release schedule is a Big Sur-prise to everyone, so all these companies are just unable to plan ahead and end up being blindsided in June every year when Apple releases first betas of their upcoming OS update which goes golden in October/November of the same year.
3 Likes
Big Sur just came out. Many other companies are focused on getting their software working on it, and Elektron is absolutely not some sort of outlier. Even Universal Audio does not support Big Sur yet, and they are very expensive and very Mac-focused.
I get that we all want both Big Sur and even M1 compatibility, but Apple is definitely changing a lot all at once, and so a transition period is perfectly reasonable.
5 Likes
Yep. UAD is another example, and i do own an Apollo. I took a look at their user forums the other day, and the users are downright hostile to people asking about updates. The company reps could use some tact as well.
Companies canât make everyone happy, and your thinking is a great example of that. Consider that companies have resources (both monetary and human) that are not boundless and have to be allocated to many different things for a company to be a viable and successful business. There are release schedules, development timelines, developers (who are people that have lives and their own problems), marketing, distribution, support, and so on.
While youâre focused on your particular problem at hand - inability to update to Big Sur, they have a few thousand different issues that youâre unaware of. I think judging a company while absolutely having no context and framing of why the release is delayed is pointless.
I do understand that frustration is due to the lack of communication on Elektronâs side, but pretending that you know what a companyâs priority is and also blaming that the priority is wrong - is absolute nonsense, unless you work for Elektron, of course and know something we donât.
8 Likes
Supporting existing customers should be a priority for every company, no matter what other 1,000s of problems they have. I am intimately familiar with release schedules, development timelines, and developers (who have lives and their own problems), but I am not sure how this factors in this debates. Developers get paid to do their jobs. Itâs never a customers issue if they have lives or problems. You went off the deep end with things that do not matter in this conversation at all. And I am not pretending what the companyâs priority is. You, however, do just that inventing excuses that are not and should not be an issue for a customer. Do we now have to base our purchases on the fact that it employs humans and does marketing and has to do distribution? Sounds to me that you are the one with no context here.
Bottom line is, customers pay for your products and customers expect a reasonable level of support past the point of purchase. Expecting customers to delay their priorities (which you have no idea about, btw) and work around your inability to provide updates in a timely manner is no reasonable in any way, shape or form.
Consider this scenario - Customerâs Mac mini dies and he has to buy a new one. The new ones only come with M1. Your answer to the customer:
- Buy a used one because driver updates are not available.
- Stop working on music until an update is released
- Better luck next time
And my thinking is absolutely reasonable and 100% valid. People pay for products and expect to be able to use them for at least the duration of manufacturerâs warranty. Owning a Mac is not some edge case that requires a company to go out of their way to make a customer happy.
You can still buy a Mac mini with Intel processor, so maybe come up with a better hypothetical âdisaster! drivers arenât availableâ.
Personally, if my livelihood depended on a stable Mac, I wouldnât be upgrading to the latest macOS at least 6 months after it is released.
4 Likes
Did you contact Elektron to have the right answers?
1 Like
And you know itâs not Elektronâs priority exactly how?
You clearly state that customer support is not their top priority, arenây you?
The new ones do come with Intel processor.
Bottom line is, there has been a considerable change in how Big Sur deals with audio and security, which makes it difficult to release an update fast.
And people do. I have a Mac that Iâm not updating to Big Sur at the moment, because of the Overbridge. My life has not stopped because of that. I think youâre confusing your desire to update with Elektron failing at their promises to you as a customer.
7 Likes
Isnât it a bad time to say that they donât support their customers when they just released a Firmware update of a 10 years old device?
9 Likes
And just because you donât have the driver you want today doesnât mean that Elektron is, as you put it, âtreating their loyal fan base as an afterthoughtâ
If that were the case they would not be beta testing OB with Big Sur, which they are, and have said they are. Scroll up to post #29
This narrative that they are somehow evil just because you can buy a new Mac that it doesnât work on is not only flawed, but par for the course across the audio hardware industry. Thatâs because when beta testing firmware during Appleâs own developer beta, things get changed constantly. The final OS release from Apple rarely resembles what companies were using for their own internal testing two months before the release.
So maybe take a beat, know that it is something they are working on, and empathize with the actual human beings who are actively working to fix the problem.
As you can see by so much of the backlash to your position, coming in here and accusing Elektron of not giving a damn doesnât accomplish anything, other than allowing you to vent your own frustration. And there are better places to do that.
Indeed, Exhibit A is really hurting the prosecution here.
12 Likes
While agreeing with a bit of everyone here, here is my take on this (note that I work mysef in software development).
Apple announced clearly and early the changes, it is then the third party compagnies to work on updating their product.
If they can not deliver it in time for OS release they MUST communicate (which they did) that they are working on it and ideally give an approximate ETA (a realistic one, even if it has a lot of buffer, if it is ready earlier than planned, no one will complain).
If they donât communicate it is normal to receive consumer complaints, and no one should argue about that. It is always about visibility and transparency. And it is ok for consumer to raise their concern.
No one is to blame when things are explained clearly.
Not a problem on apple side iâm glad that they constantly improving security.
Elektron could have been faster on delivering this update, but if the problem is actually that they need to refactor their implementation then they MUST communicate about it.
Users will understand and will prefer to have a clean and solid product instead of a rushed buggy one.
Cheers
(Patiently waiting for the update as i had not much choice to update my mac to big sur)
2 Likes
I think some of the complaints could equally apply to asking why we dont have a linux version of overbridge (on every cpu - all of them ! As well as every kernel plus all the Unices) Why cant we have overbridge on FreeRTOS + libopencm3 please ?
Maintaining software for multiple operating systems that are rapidly changing (especially changing at a very low level like MacOS) is a lot of work. I think Apple are really shooting themselves in the foot with how rapidly they are changing their OS - I think that customers are more likely to vote with their feet against Apple here, rather than Elektron. I certainly am strongly thinking that my Apple laptop will be my first and last Apple laptop - pretty much exclusively because their OS is changing too rapidly and is too developmentally unstableâŚ
Also, if we are complaing about support- Appleâs record for supporting old hardware is a lot worse than Elektronâs (eg how many drawers are full of âoldâ iphones and ipads that are no longer supported and can no longer run apps that have been deleted from their App Store ?) So, if you choose Apple, itâs a little harsh to complain over Elektronâs supportâŚ
And, to be fair, Elektron will get there eventuallyâŚ
2 Likes
This 
1 Like
Itâs Apple at fault here. They release an OS that they know will break compatibility with thousands of other devices, and they donât give a shit. All those development costs fall on the multitudes of smaller companies with lesser resources, like Elektron.
Apple should explicitly warn people that updating to the latest OS will mean many peripherals donât work. Do they?
As far as Iâm concerned, theyâre parasitic on the rest of the software industry. Theyâre big enough that everyone else just has to suck it up.
3 Likes