Polymeters: help

Can someone help explain how this person in the below article figured out how 16 reps will bring a 16 step and 6 step 4/4 beat back into alignment, or start over at the same time. I’m calculating 48 as the LCM and therefore 12 reps or loops. But I have no idea what I’m doing though, seriously :slight_smile:

http://www.keithmcmillen.com/blog/analog-rytm-programming-with-polymeter/

Thanks,
Adonis

Mathematical error by the author; you are correct.

Yes.
163=48
6
8=48

So after 48 steps the whole show starts over again. The 16step-loop therefore plays 3 times and the 6-step loop plays 8 times.
As OP said, it is the simple thing of finding the smallest common multiple (LCM). :slight_smile:
Now I just don´t understand why he says 12 reps. I assume reps means repeats? So it only needs 3 repeats of the 16step-loop then. Or am I getting something wrong here? I am asking because the language barrier makes such things quite hard to explain exactly.

This is really interesting and fun stuff - finding the LCM but also the natural breaks, builds and drop positions.

I figured out a formula for drop, break and build placement - spots in songs some people may be used to these things happening

Say you’re running polymeter beat with a 7/16 loop and 4/4 loop. To make them fall back in line

7*16 = 112 bars. This number needs to be converted back to steps, so 112/2 * 16 = 896 steps. You can place or unmute a splash or FX on bar 57!

This formula seems to work for all kinds of configurations

3/16 loop

316 = 48/216 = 384 steps or 24 bars! Put the drop on the 25, 49 etc

Not sure how tight my math is but - here’s something…

I figured out a formula for drop, break and build placement - spots in songs some people may be used to these things happening

Say you’re running polymeter beat with a 7/16 loop and 4/4 loop. To make them fall back in line

7*16 = 112 bars. This number needs to be converted back to steps, so 112/2 * 16 = 896 steps. You can place or unmute a splash or FX on bar 57!

This formula seems to work for all kinds of configurations

3/16 loop

316 = 48/216 = 384 steps or 24 bars! Put the drop on the 25, 49 etc

Not sure how tight my math is but - here’s something…
[/quote]
Your description is a bit odd; possibly you are a little confused by time signatures and sequencer steps.

It’s natural to think of a 7/16 loop as lasting 7 Elektron-sequencer steps.
It’s natural to think of a 4/4 loop as lasting 16 Elektron-sequencer steps.

In which case the two patterns would come back into phase after 7 repeats of the 16 step pattern and 16 repeats of the 7 step pattern.

But maybe that’s not what you meant.

Hi guys,
Tom from Keith McMillen Instruments here.
Yes, you are correct that the LCM is 48 and therefore it will take 8 repetitions of the 6-step loop or 3 repetitions of the 16-step loop to sync again. I believe it must have been mathematical error in that the LCM is 48 and not 96 (which would account for the 16 repetitions bit). In any case, good eye and thanks for reading! I’ve updated the blog post on the KMI site with the correct information.
Thanks, Elektronauts!
best-
-Tom

I figured out a formula for drop, break and build placement - spots in songs some people may be used to these things happening

Say you’re running polymeter beat with a 7/16 loop and 4/4 loop. To make them fall back in line

7*16 = 112 bars. This number needs to be converted back to steps, so 112/2 * 16 = 896 steps. You can place or unmute a splash or FX on bar 57!

This formula seems to work for all kinds of configurations

3/16 loop

316 = 48/216 = 384 steps or 24 bars! Put the drop on the 25, 49 etc

Not sure how tight my math is but - here’s something…
[/quote]
Your description is a bit odd; possibly you are a little confused by time signatures and sequencer steps.

It’s natural to think of a 7/16 loop as lasting 7 Elektron-sequencer steps.
It’s natural to think of a 4/4 loop as lasting 16 Elektron-sequencer steps.

In which case the two patterns would come back into phase after 7 repeats of the 16 step pattern and 16 repeats of the 7 step pattern.

But maybe that’s not what you meant.[/quote]
Thanks, Peter - I think we’re saying the same thing. You’re correct, both loops would meet back up at the seven.

The music I listen to and try and reproduce typically drops on the 1, 9, 17, 25, 33…etc

I’m looking for that common beat where an odd loop like 7/16 matches up with a straight loop such as a 4/4 on the typical drop. These two match up at the first point of what I describe above after 58 bars and therefore the drop is on the 57.

Dropping a beat on the 8 might be cool, but would sound a little weird for what I’m trying to make.

I hope that makes sense :slight_smile:

I think that this article may be of interest to the the thread as well… http://aatpm.com/banff.pdf

Great thread, although I don’t much like using Elektron gear for polymetrics due to the odd page display implementation. I guess if you only work with 1 page it is fine, but I have to say the way it works on the Korg Electribe2 is much more logical and simple to use when dealing with more than 1 page of steps.

I quite like to use odd divisions such as 7,9,11,13,15 over 16 step patterns where the LCM is often quite high, good for background stuff and “sprinkles”.

@Tom from McMillen - A K-Mix with 8 stereo inputs would be great for Elektron gear :slight_smile:

Some really interesting stuff here, I would love to know how to implement on the AR. Is anyone able to help?

I tested polyrytmics on my AR yesterday on my first song and it’s a great method to make the rhytm more interesting and non-looping.

In the “scale” menu I made the normal mods (song len 64) and for the track I changed the step to 60/64 (if I remember correctly).

Cross-posting, sorry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcz2bmWDdhE but the “vocal” sound (“PA!”) is polyrytmic. I think it works great.

Study the features of the Scale menu (especially in Advanced Mode) on pages 38 and 39 of the manual.