Purchased Sound Packs for the Rytm v's Samples/Free Sound Packs

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
#1

ANSWER - No difference, except for the Synthetics Sound Pack which give you patches that can be saved right into the Sound Bank. All other Sound Packs for the Rytm (from what I can see) only contain samples, not patches. If you have quality samples, use you own, or if you want some quality samples, the Elektron Sample Packs are high quality all ready to place on your +Drive…

This may be obvious to most, but I just want to clear this up in my mind.

The free Sound Packs for the Rytm (like the Drum Enthusiast) can not be placed in the sample banks, only on the +.Drive.

Only purchased Sound Packs like one I purchased recently Synthetics can be placed In a Sounds Bank.

So if I want samples that I have (.wav) like ones from a Jomox 999 then these also can only be placed on the +Drive and loaded to the sample bank for use.

So the only sounds that can be placed in the Sound Banks are purchased ones from Elektron. But these have to be specifically for the Rytm.

If you purchase the new sample packs for the Digi then those also can only be placed on the +Drive as well. You will not be able to place them in the Sound Banks.

If someone could let me know if this is the case that would be wonderful.

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#2

By sound bank, you mean project bank?

Because sound bank. in Elektron terminology, ar typically presets

#3

Sounds for the Rytm may or may not use samples

Samples are stored on the +Drive, maybe in folders
When they’re used they’re pulled into sample slots (ram if you like) in each project

Sounds are stored on the +Drive too, but are sorted into banks 16x256 and these sounds may or may not reference samples . User sounds are saved here, or imported/purchased ones

Digitakt sounds are no use on a Rytm, but the wavs are 100% compatible

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#4

Thanks Avantronica.

Things I know:
I know everything is saved on the +Drive. I did not covey that very well. Sorry.
I know that we can save a changed sound that originally came from the Sound Bank, to a new Sound Bank slot.
I know that we can save sounds from a Sound Bank to the Pool.
I know we can use samples by ‘loading to project’ from the +Drive. 127 slots.

What I am trying to understand is the advantage of purchasing Soundpacks over just using samples/free soundpacks.

On the purchased soundpack “Synthetics” I was able to import directly to a Sounds Bank by following the instructions that came with the Soundpack:
“3. Prepare your Analog Rytm to receive the sounds in a suitable Sound Bank slot. Open the GLOBAL menu. Select the eighth item in the list, SYSEX DUMP and press [YES/SAVE]. Select SYSEX RECEIVE and press [YES/SAVE]. Using the [ARROW] keys, highlight +DRIVE SOUNDS on the left hand menu and press [YES/SAVE]. The highlight bar will now appear on the right hand menu. This is where you select the Sound Bank that will receive the new sounds. Select Sound Bank position using the [ARROW] keys. Sound Bank A and B normally contains preset sounds, so in this example we will select Sound Bank C…”

With the free soundpack “drum enthusiast” the instructions are different:
“3. Create a new destination directory for the Samples. On the GLOBAL menu, select the second item in the list, SAMPLES, and press [YES/SAVE]. On the main screen, press [ARROW] key [RIGHT] to access the right side menu. Select CREATE DIR, the fifth item in the list, and press [YES/SAVE]. A naming screen will appear. Give your new destination directory an appropriate name (for example, ENTHUSIAST, but you can give it any name you want). Once the new directory has appeared on the main screen, open it by pressing [YES/SAVE]. In the initially empty directory, press [ARROW] key [LEFT] to open the left side menu. Highlight UPLOAD HERE and press [YES/SAVE]”

Looking at the above I am making the following assumption:
I assume that by purchasing a Samplepack Elektron gives us the advantage of being able to import these sounds directly to the Sound Bank. In doing so we can use these sounds over various Projects. And there are 254spots x16banks of storage.
And we can use our own samples/free soundpacks that we can only load to the +Drive. These have to be loaded into every new project. And there are only 127 slots per project.

This tells me that there is an advantage of purchasing the Soundpacks as opposed to just using the free soundpacks or our own samples.

I suppose what I am really asking is 'have I understood this correctly?’.

If so I might find some spare cash and listen closely to those Soundpacks to see which ones I like best and make a few informed purchases.

But whatever I do I should only purchase the Soundpacks that are for the ‘Rytm’ from the Elektron website, as any of the other (Digitakt for example) will give me samples (.wav files) that we can use, but we will not be able to load them to the Sample Banks of the Rytm.

BTW, is the Elektron website down? I get an error message when trying to access it.

#5

No. Purchasing makes no difference to what you may find offered.

Drum enthusiast (iirc) is for the analog four, so it’s not appropriate, I’m not sure why there’s talk of samples, it has neither compatible sounds nor any samples … maybe a new pack exists, but the important bit is listed below (if it indeed includes samples of the A4 sounds, then these can easily be turned into sounds by creating new sound, import sample, save sound)

a ‘sound pack’ for the rytm may have sounds and/or kits (with sounds baked in, but not saved to banks yet) … these may not need samples … there’s no connection between cost and how it’s structured although taking the effort to lay something out nicely is less likely to be a freebie

the only sounds the rytm will load are rytm specific ones (imported samples can be incorporated into sounds)

you could in theory buy or load free samples of a fragment of a squarewave
this won’t be much use until it’s incorporated into a sound where e.g. the filter, filter envelope and amp envelope shape the sound in some way … i.e. the sound design

if you want a sound to play back a sample only of a perfectly captured and finished sound, then there’s no advantage to buying that type of sound pack (if it exists) where the sounds are all default but with a sample added in … it’s easy, and naming and saving are painless

buying conveys no added advantage other than having somebody design sounds (or just add/curate samples) for you

where the advantages start to make more sense is when a kit is designed, so there’s more curation of what works well together and performance controls are tailored and effects/compressor are set up … sounds are only one small part of that

it’s best if you just try things out and stick to rytm specific stuff

there are countless free samples online

designing your own sounds and understanding the underlying synthesis is far more rewarding

#6

OK this is starting to get confusing. I appreciate all that you have said Avantronica and your help in trying to help me understand.

I do realise that the purchased Sound Packs are "a ‘sound pack’ for the rytm may have sounds and/or kits (with sounds baked in, but not saved to banks yet) " and “taking the effort to lay something out nicely is less likely to be a freebie” which I fully appreciate. “where the advantages start to make more sense is when a kit is designed, so there’s more curation of what works well together and performance controls are tailored and effects/compressor are set up … sounds are only one small part of that” Which is why I am happy to pay for it. Someone went to a lot of effort and education. I unfortunately do not have the time to learn as much as someone who does sound design as their full time profession. Unfortunately not all of us can be Sound Engineers. Some of us like myself settle for doing it as a hobby, as a distraction from the mundane job we go to every day. I am happy to pay someone for that effort and education. I expect someone to pay me for my profession and education in my day job, I am happy to pass the money I earn doing that job to someone who’s job I also appreciate. It makes the world go round. But I digress.

“the only sounds the rytm will load are rytm specific ones (imported samples can be incorporated into sounds)” OK. So imported samples can be saved on the +Drive in folders and loaded into Kits but, they can not be loaded into the Sounds Bank. Right? Only the sounds from purchased Sounds Packs can be loaded into Sound Banks. I have no problem with this, I just wanted to be clear about it. I tend to miss things in my haste and started the thread because I wanted to know if I was missing something.

This is the facts as far as I have figured out:

Go to Global > Sysex Dump > Sysex Receive > +Drive Sound > I choose a bank and hit enter >

  • If I load the purchased “Synthetics.syx” file I get 128 samples loaded into the bank. Wonderful.

  • If I try to load ‘anything’ but that file nothing happens. Not even with the .wav files from the Drum Enthusiast free pack.

This tells me there is a distinct difference between purchased Sound Packs and your run of the mill every day sample (.wav for example).

I am willing to concede that I am missing something. I just need to know what that step is that I am missing. Please let me know if I am missing something.

I regards to being able to save ‘sampled’ sounds back to the Bank. You tell me “, then these can easily be turned into sounds by creating new sound, import sample, save sound”. Can you step me through this as I again must be missing something. When we save sounds from a track/kit to the bank it only saves the ‘Bank Sound’, and it’s ‘changed parameters’. It does not take the sound of the ‘sample’ that might have been playing along on the Track in the Kit. Please correct me if I am wrong here also, but only sounds that are in the Sounds Bank, can be saved in a new slot in the Sound Bank.

In regards to “designing your own sounds and understanding the underlying synthesis is far more rewarding” I totally agree. I prefer to do my sound design on the Eurorack. It is teaching me a lot about sound design and what I learn on the format is helping me a lot with sound design on the Rytm and being able to understand the Rytms capabilities.

#7

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NA5APBlyi3I this video by the Elektron guru @cuckoomusic is very informative and should shed some light on your questions about saving sounds and how they relate to the file structure. Around the 20:00 mark is where you’ll learn about saving sounds to use on a global level.

Hope this helps!

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#8

You can’t expect to load a wave file when the device is primed waiting on a specific sysex file

I suggest as per the last post you look at some tutorials and the manual and the many forum discussions, the best way to learn is by self discovery … if someone points you to a set menu/process you’ll not see the others and figure out all the options/nuances … it’s best to give you the fishing rod rather than the fish imho

uploading a sample is easy and well documented, as is saving a newly created sound, so bottoming this out yourself will be more satisfying as you begin to learn the other trickier stuff about the architecture

#9

The Synthetics pack can be placed in a Sounds Bank because it is a collection of 128 sounds, which are all made with the analog engines, not samples.

Most of the other Rytm sound packs contain kits, patterns and samples, but no “sounds”.

#10

Thanks Vanilla Sun. I will check it out.

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#11

I appreciate that Avantronica.

I did do some digging on Google. Maybe I was typing in the incorrect key words. But I could not find a straight answer.

I see the Elektron boxes and their workflow similar to learning a new computer program. Sometimes one can spend hours trying to solve a problem that, if you asked the question of an experienced user, could have been solved in minutes.

Sometimes a simple process from a more experienced user is helpful. And saves a lot of time.

I appreciate your tips.

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#12

Thanks VanillaSUN. That video was awesome. Most of it I already new, but I also learned a few things. Cleared some thoughts up as well.

How good is Cuckoo? What a guy. Happy to share his knowledge, and knows the best way to share it. Very talented musician as well.

So after the video, various discussions and hints I have ascertained that there is a clear advantage to purchasing a Sound Pack if it contains " patches" like the Synthetics Pack.

But this seems to be the only pack like this. And it was the first pack I purchased, and I had thought all packs were structured this way. I was wrong. And this is what lead to my confusion and misunderstandings in this thread.

After purchasing a few more packs it seems like that is the ‘only’ pack that contains patches. The other two I just now purchased, and from what I can see all the other packs for the Rytm, only have samples, not patches. So on the whole, Avantronica is correct in saying there is no clear advantage. You only end up with samples. So you might as well make your own patches.

I have discovered that we can save a sample into the Sounds Bank which can be used over various projects, (as was explained in the video provided by VaninnaSun, 23min & 1h9min). The sample is saved in with the sound patch in the Bank, and the sample within the Bank is saved as a new sample in a new sample slot when recalled.

As Avantronica pointed out you could just use the factory sounds in the Sound Bank (correction, this is not true, I made an assumption) and use synthesis to create most of these sounds. This would be the best way as because they are not bringing in a new sample and taking up a sample spot every time you load a new sound. You can also use his suggestion of getting a simple wave sample (sine, square, triangle) and create hundreds of sound patches from these simple waveform’s. But doing it this way you will soon run into that number 127 per Pattern. (Correction, it appears that the Rytm recognises when the same sample is used for a patch so as long as you do not use 128 samples or more per Pattern you should be fine. Thanks avantronica.)

It all depends on your workflow. It seems that the possibilities for sounds design are large and there is plenty of storage. As long as you are happy to work within the constraints of the Pattern.

I learnt a lot, and have a much clearer grasp of the operating system of the Rytm.

I also learnt that my confusion about Sounds Packs was born of the first pack I happen to purchase. My first purchase was the Synthetics pack which contains “patches”. These load straight into the Bank. Synthetics pack seems like the only one designed this way. Where as the 808 and Run the Track packs I just purchased only contain sample wave files, not the patches. So they end up on the +Drive.

#13

Glad you’ve got to the bottom of it now, but I never recommended using factory sounds from the sound banks fwiw … i’d clear those and start from scratch, start from a new sound.

Not really, you could design scores of sounds using one sample
You could even design loads of sounds using 120 different single cycle waves on one single small sample and use the slice indexing feature. Then there are potentially hundreds of sounds at the expense of 1 sample slot (of the project) and minimal ram sacrifice.

#14

Avantronica, So if I understand correctly, we can use the same sample to create lets say 10 sounds saved into the Sounds Bank. If we use all those 10 sounds in a new Pattern the Rytm knows that it’s the same sample and does not bother loading it into a new slot. It knows its the same sample and uses it. Nice. I like it.

Made corrections to my post to avoid confusion if anyone happens to read back. And placed an answer at the top of the thread.

Thanks Avantronica. I got there in the end.

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#15

It’s nice to know people are still purchasing my soundpacks! Thanks, @Zipnil !

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