Synthstrom Audible Deluge [inc. Open Source development]

The Lounge Other Gear
#1708

Good question.

Here’s why the Deluge isn’t my instrument of choice for final output stuff -

On the Blackbox, I launch clips independently of each other, either from the sequencer or just from the sample view. As such, they trigger only after the set quantized value, not on a specific bar. All the Deluge tracks launch and stop after a set start and stop definition, so they’re not as free running as the Blackbox. I can mute and unmute them on the go, but I can’t tell one track to have its own start and stop cycle, independent on when other tracks start and stop. I can, with the Blackbox. You can get around this within the Deluge’s Arranger, but that becomes an actual arrangement, which is fine for song writing but not so much for experimenting with tracks to build your song.

The song mode in Blackbox, allows sequences to run independently of each other and loop after their own start and stop pattern, rather than follow a global start and stop point. It’s an extension of the philosophy around its clip launching and individual sequences, merged into a stripped-down but efficient way to create longer arrangements with sections evolving across clips, no matter if you’re jumping between them. Again, the Deluge’s Arranger goes some way to resolve this, but it remains a linear and structured affair, not the more free form approach from the Blackbox.

Blackbox allows for random slice triggering with polyphony. Take a loop, slice it up, set the sequencer to launch a slice but apply it to random, let the release slide into the following attack, and you got endless evolving textures from one awesome loop. This is a fairly specific feature, but I’ve found it so useful, I won’t do without it now.

Thanks to the Blackbox three outputs and its flexible assignments around those, I can use external fx to resample Blackbox content without any need for something in between.

Furthermore, the three Blackbox outputs also allow me to sum and mix an entier track from the Blackbox into anything that can take six channels, which gives me a greater freedom to shape the final quality of the track directly from the Blackbox.

Finally, the raw output from the Blackbox - the converters, its pitch and time stretch algoritms, the filter, delay and reverb, and the granular fx, to mention just a few - just sound fantastic. The Deluge’s output isn’t quite there, in comparison.

However, for song writing - to get an idea down, to build a sequence, to create harmonies, evolving patterns, leads and whatnot - the Blackbox doesn’t hold a candle to the Deluge.

I write my music on the Deluge. I assemble it in the Blackbox. The two are fantastic together, for me.

5 Likes
#1709

Yeah, the Boards of Deluge sounds are great, as good as it gets on the Dellie unless you go multi-sampling, which I think is where it’s at its best.

But great as they are, it’s not quite there, is it? It’s like all these grains of organic and shifting movement, they’re just not quite there.

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#1710

very true. I like the synth engine on the deluge, but I really miss modulation. Envelopes as well as LFOs are way to restricted in their targets, count and flexibility.

2 Likes
#1711

The new feature teasers featuring MPE blew my mind. In a bad way.

There’s a list of fundamentals they still need to address that is so sold now that I think Jesus contributed a couple of suggestions. I don’t remember seeing anyone ask for MPE but that seems to be the new feature that will be crammed into the next major OS update.

I love my Deluge and Synthstrom are a breath of fresh air when it comes to product support and continued development but it’s a frustrating mistress at times.

1 Like
#1712

Yes I’ve seen that reported by at least one other user but I still went ahead and bought the card. Right now I only take sound out of the deluge so it’s not an issue for me. It would be even worse for in my case because I have the card configured to never go to sleep.

#1713

I think the Deluge remains a passion project for its inventor, and part of that passion is to listen to the users and help them out by giving them stuff they ask for, when it’s called for. But at its heart, it feels like the Deluge is what Rohan Hill wants it to be, and nothing else. And I think that’s perfectly fine, even though I agree, MPE in an instrument like the Deluge isn’t exactly what most probably think it needs.

Personally, I think it’s a fantastic sequencer and arranger. Anything that takes it deeper into that territory, only cements it more as a strong contender to Pyramid and Cirklon. It’s my permanent tool for song writing now.

2 Likes
#1714

Wow, his commentary around 3:10 into that video is spot on with my experience with GAS: “… lost sight of what’s really important in the end [to me]…”

The Deluge was the instrument brought me out of chasing features and enjoying the experience.

I’m waiting to see what the MPE update brings for us non-MPE users.

E.g. will X/Y parameters be hardwired to MPE standard? Or will we be able to learn their input (say ModWheel)? Thus giving us an external mod source with attenuation/bipolar

1 Like
#1715

I agree, seems not to have many upvotes on the Deluge forum compared to other features too. Perhaps it might be an indication that more expression parameters are coming?

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#1716

Could be. But also, the Deluge will never be one of the great when it comes to its sound engine. So it’s like, why bother? Those who appreciate MPE are usually pretty nifty keyboard players (not always, of course), and not many of those will pick the Dellie as their sound weapon of choice. So who is this for?

Whereas there’s much it could do in the sequencing area still, and just keep affirming its position as a strong contender to the Pyramids and Cirklons out there.

You could also argue it could be an even stronger sampler, but again, I think its somewhat lacking output, its internal struggle to just glue a mix together, might stand in the way for that, too. Once you’ve grown close to the Deluge as a sampler, and then spend a few hours with an Octatrack, Blackbox or Toraiz, you just can’t unhear the difference.

2 Likes
#1717

I agree with all that too :+1:

1 Like
#1718

I’ve been deciding between an OT or BB to pair with my Dellie … definitely missing a little bit on the sampling side. On the other hand, it’s been good practice for a novice sample-mangler (me) to try to work with what the Deluge offers.

sustain pedal does not work

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#1719

As far as features go, it’s very strong. And the actual converters are great. So it’s a fantastic playground for sampling, no doubt.

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#1720

Perhaps a bit cynical but MPE in a portable device is a pretty unique and marketable feature. It can also lend itsef very well to your regular one or two finger synth players (believe me :joy:).

It does feel a bit over the top in something like this but with an Osmose coming soon I’m pretty interested in seeing how nicely the two will play with each other

3 Likes
#1721

I’ve had my Deluge for about a week now, and here’s a few more of my thoughts:

Overall features:

  • Scale mode is magic. I can transpose an entire song in a few seconds, and play around and see which tonic note sounds best, switch modes, etc. This was one of my favorite features from the OP-Z, and glad to see it in Deluge, since it’s not a super advertised feature of scale mode. People mostly just talked about how it highlights the keys for you and makes all the audition pads play in-scale.
  • Switching piano roll resolution on the fly is awesome - it feels like correcting small timing issues is actually quicker on the Deluge than with a keyboard and mouse in a piano roll on a DAW.
  • Sidechain is a fun general-use modulator. Sidechain => arp speed has been a blast.
  • Preset management and sample digging is really a pain in the ass.
  • Using the “keyboard” to search for synth presets isn’t a solution, since it does a literal match from the beginning of the preset name. There’s no way to search for a list of presets that contain the word “bass” or “pluck”!?
  • I’m beginning to see folks’ points about lack of performance options vs. Elektron boxes. It’d be nice to be able to fuck up a pattern and quickly recall it to a previous state, perform a multi-param morph, etc. That said, the scale mode isomorphic grid is 10x more live-jam ready than a linear semitone scale ever was, so :man_shrugging: I think if I play this thing live I’ll be much happier whenever I want to drop into an improvised lead or solo.

Synth Engines:

  • I knew in advance that the FM synth was limited (2 carrier, 2 mod), but coming from a really great 4-op synth (Bitwig’s Phase-4) it feels very limiting. This isn’t a completely fair comparison obviously, since one is in a DAW and one is in a groovebox, and I know there’s planned improvements for FM soon.
  • Lack of ability to use filters for FM synth patches is a major oof.
  • Semitones/cents for FM ratios is weird.
  • For all synth types (subtractive, FM, and ring), I didn’t realize that there were some limitations on mod destinations, for example modulating effects sends.
  • The saturation effect is fine, I heard some complaints about it. It’s nothing amazing, but it doesn’t seem awful either.

I’m starting to feel like I have a really good handle on things. I’ll report back in a few weeks with some more thoughts and (hopefully) some tracks that don’t totally suck.

8 Likes
#1722

thanks for this, look forward to hear what you think about heavy sample based use later on.

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#1723

Yeah, I’ve pretty much only used samples for “kits” so far, not many sampled synth patches although I have a big batch of SCWFs to throw on and use as sampled instruments soon and some other random samples from my collection that I’d like to adapt into instruments on Deluge. Definitely on my list to explore the sampler more in-depth soon. I loaded up a few of the drag-and-drop multi-sample instruments that someone assembled on the Synthstrom forums, and they are very good. Makes me excited what the sampler might hold for me!

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#1724

Oh dear, really didn’t want to hear that as a prospective buyer. The 4-char display is the one feature that’s making me hesitate.

Presumably a better folder structure should help on the sample side ? Not sure if that’s applicable to synth presets though ?

Interested to know how experienced users cope with this. Are there ways to minimise the hassle or do you simply adapt to using it.

#1725

It’s not a hassle for me, but here’s why -

I’m not much of a preset guy. And the presets I do use, are few. So I tend to stick with 15-20 of them and delete the rest, and build my own from there. You quickly learn what’s what, even in a four letter display.

I’ve used the same sample library for years. I expand on it all the time, but not by much each time. I don’t have hundreds of kicks, snares and hats, ten categories of loops or stuff. I know my library and find my way around it quickly.

So if you know your own content, the screen’s not much of an issue.

One might even look at it the other way around - given the raw and simple nature of the Deluge’s screen, perhaps the issue is that we have too much content we never use anyway, and the screen just highlights this by making browsing inconvenient mainly because you got too much stuff to browse?

7 Likes
#1726

For synth presets, I started a pseudo-folder structure by prepending the first part of the name with its category, e.g. “BA 1. FM Rumbler, BA1a. FM Rumbler, BA 2. Plucky”

But yeah, it’s not ideal. Choosing a naming convention is the only way to organize (lots of feature requests for synth preset folders though so we’ll see). Recently I’ve taken to building sounds from scratch as a way to really learn the synth engine better.

I don’t have any issue with the sample side but I probably don’t use as many samples as most. You can decide the folder structure so it can match your preferences. One thing to note: you should try to choose a structure before you start making a bunch of songs, as moving the files will break kits.

This chart from the manual is very helpful! I like using LFO 2 as a slow envelope. It could just be me, but I’m struggling to grasp when a modulation is addictive vs multiplicative

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1 Like
#1727

Yes I think prefix naming the synths is the way to go and something I’m setting up right now. I believe there is also a way to “fast scroll” by holding the knob down and turning it to jump from prefix to prefix such as from “Bass” to “Lead” to “Pad” instead of just iterating each preset one at a time.

Organizing synths into folders is one of the most requested features but it has been open nearly 3 years now. This leads me to believe there is some reason they haven’t done it as it’s obviously needed: Folder structure for organizing presets — Synthstrom Audible