The Digitone and Syntakt both frustrate me for totally different reasons

Beat me to it.

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Recreating sounds on DN really is a good way to slowly grasp what the parameters do.
When you do so, donā€™t forget that thereā€™s some settings to be aware of in the ā€œsound setupā€ menu (FUNC+TRIG) too.

I never played a ST so canā€™t say much about it from experience. From what I understand, itā€™s strength is in the combination of easy-to-tweak presets (i.e. machines) and real analogue goodness. Plus a lot of tracks in one machine. I think itā€™s great for what it is.

For me, already owning DT and DN (DN keys and desktop), ST never sparked GAS though.

Regarding DN: itā€™s a fantastic machine with maaany great presets both factory and 3rd party which you can further tweak to youā€™re liking or just use them as they are. Or start from scratch exploring FM synthesis if you fancy so.
It really is up to you how much time you want to spend learning FM vs just playing it tweaking presets. I do both, just what I feel like atm.

That said, if you can, you might want to spend some more time focusing on each machine alone before deciding which is best for you. Say take 2 weeks for ST and another 2 for DN or something like that.
Cause really every machine is different and Iā€™ve learned that you really need to spend time with them to see if theyā€™re made for you.

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DonĀ“t give up. If you can keep both machines, if not keep syntakt. There is a misconception almost all people fall for. Even thou the first page has the best designed icons, itĀ“s not the page where most of the sound design takes place. IĀ“ve been there too, and I still fall for it because of the icons :wink: But the timbre only sets the very basic character of the sound, there really is not much happening even if you turn and twist all you want. What you want is modulation over the time the sound is happening. this is where the sound design starts. So your best friend are the envelopes, Lfo and the Filter as well. The Lfo can act as a short envelope an can modulate all sorts of things. the filter has an envelope, try negative ones, try longer attacksā€¦all those stuff. the syntakt even if machines are missing is quite capable of all sorts of sounds but you wonĀ“t find them on the timbre page.

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What a nice change to hear from someone who seems to understand what the Syntakt is about.

Edit: Not being sarcastic or having a go at OP, itā€™s just genuinely nice to hear from people who get what the Syntakt is instead of all the constant moaning about what it isnā€™t.

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Yeah envelopes/LFOs are my main source of design on every Elektron box. I guess I was talking specifically about the fundamental sound shaping tools. On the Digitone you have all the same parameters you just mentioned, with more flexibility in the actual synth engine, but yeah Fin is right I just need to spend more time learning this shit (for either box).

Sounds like a Model:Cycles might be more what youā€™re looking for?

I would like to have a Digitone with 8 Tracks, retrig, midiarp, etc, sequencer, and fx per track like Octatrack :smiley:

Call me an instabuyer.

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Digitone FM is pretty accessible to learn, just start simple and experiment with the parameters of the FM side of it, notice how different algorithms have different structures, how increasing frequency or level of the operators alters the sound, then try using the LFO or envelopes to modulate the frequency or level etc. Once you have a reasonable grasp of all this then a bit of experimenting will reap rewards. IMHO it isnā€™t much more difficult that a subtractive analog synth once you understand how the operators interact and how to modulate them to achieve the sound you are after.

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If you donā€™t click with them, maybe get rid of them? No point forcing it! Maybe use something that inspires you more

If you turn the sweep parameter of the Syntakts percussion machines to 0 you get surprisingly useful melodic FM-able sounds. Obviously the ratios are fixed, making it less flexible than the Digitone, but its a nice way to get simple FM sounds without much work at all. Work a few parameter locks into your sequences and you can get some pretty expressive phrases written quickly,

IMO the syntakt is a pretty good drum machine, but sounds best when you push the machines beyond what theyā€™re designed for ā€“ make a lead with PC Carbon, a bassline with BD Plastic, hi-hats with SY Bits ā€“ its really easy to get weird, inspiring sounds quickly.

Samples on the DT are absolutely not immalleable, even before the recent updateā€¦one word, resample!

Buy another DTā€¦ Or a Virus/Blofeld?

Iā€™d keep them both. It sounds like you just need to spend some more time with them and find your own workflow for using them.

What helped me produce tracks quickly on the Digitone was to stop using the Sound Pool altogether. So no presents, either stock or your own. Iā€™d spend an hour making a snare sound, just to realize it didnā€™t fit with the track. Itā€™s also relatively awkward and annoying to save sounds and sound lock them. Sound Locks donā€™t transfer when you copy and paste a Pattern from Project to Project so theyā€™re annoying for that reason as well.

Iā€™m not saying itā€™ll work for you, but starting from scratch every time really helped me produce faster. I want a kick, I have to make it. This helps you become better at sound design as well through repeated practice. I stopped caring if Sounds were ā€œas goodā€ as the presets or whatever and just used what fits the track. Most of the time the sounds are crap on their own, but work in a mix.

Make sure to take advantage of the Master Overdrive and the the Voice Allocation page as a performance tool. Midi from any track can be sent to any other track, so what was a kick rhythm can now be a bassline, etc. This is the true strength of the DN in my opinion.

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I feel a bit like you, although Iā€™ve only heard Syntakt from Youtube videos, I wasnā€™t really impressed from any of them and lack of polyphony is a dealbreaker for me. I like how Digitone sounds but Iā€™m on the same boat, mostly random tweaking it and hoping for happy accidents :slight_smile:

After recent Digitakt update Iā€™m kind of hoping for some DN machines too, to simplify and maybe expand sound palette. I would love it to have wavetable synthesis capabilities, maybe with just a basic 2-op FM, even though Iā€™m probably asking for too much.

In any case Iā€™m definitely keeping it for now, mostly for itā€™s sequencer. No other synth can do anything like that, even though I like some others better for pure sound and programming style.

ā€œthe Voice Allocation page as a performance toolā€ :exploding_head: Youā€™ve just opened up a new world for me, Iā€™d never even considered utilising it that way. Seriously thank you. :pray:t4:

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Glad to help! When I first read about this technique in the ā€œDN Tips and Tricksā€ thread my mind was blown! I literally use Trig Layering (as itā€™s called in the manual) as the main performance feature, even more so than Control All.

I feel like the DN is misunderstood because some of its coolest features arenā€™t that well known. Itā€™s good that we have this forum to share ideas and improve at our craft.

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This is a very cool feature of the Digitone. I keep wishing for it in other Elektron boxes. Never thought about using it as a performance tool though, despite having the Digitone for over 2 years. Good tip!

Yeah, the M:C digital machines just sound like one-shot samples (STā€™s Swarm being the exception), and I did not like that at all. Luckily, on the ST we have two LFOs to modulate them. Here, Iā€™ve used the LFO to make the snare sound (itā€™s SD Basic) sound like a real snare DEVOURED BY SQUARE WAVES - Syntakt RAW #industrial - YouTube ā€¦

As a person who thinks the Syntakt is the greatest thing ever (no joking, recently I contemplated having two), Itā€™s all about to overcome the init sounds and the suggestive names. All of the machines can do a lot of wildly different things ā€¦

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I think most of the frustration here stems from trying to learn both at once. It makes you more likely to give up and move on to the other box when you hit a wall, whereas if you just had the one youā€™d be more patient, learn what youā€™re doing and work through the problem.

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When I first got the Digitone Keys I was unimpressed with most presets, but once I started learning how to do sound design with it the whole thing opened up for me. Those boxes demand a certain time to learn how to operate then if you donā€™t dedicate full time to one of them for at least some months.
I bought the Digitone last year, but I was also experimenting with loads of other gear, including Eurorack modules, that makes focusing and really learning a machine much harder.

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