Yep, I love jamming and getting lost with hardware but it’s that ‘top down’ view that’s missing and can make it pretty easy to get lost… or to get stuck in loops.
I’ve also struggled with this for awhile. I was positive I was going to just switch to ITB. I sold a ton of gear even. Then I finally broke and bought the Digitakt and Digitone I’ve wanted for forever (I had money from selling gear right?) and now I wonder if I will use the DAW at all outside of mixing/mastering (which is making the Ableton Suite purchase feel a bit excessive and making me want to switch to Logic). Now I want the new iridium. And I just bought a new keyboard for my desk so I can work better in the daw.
So I can’t seem to make up my mind either. If I were trying to produce for profit, I would probably buckle down into the DAW as it is clearly superior for composing. But for having fun, I’m out of the box almost entirely.
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After going over a lot of software again I can suggest all the U-HE synths, more Zebra and Bazille, they sound great, Hanz Zimmer is a big fan of Zebra, it’s honestly very good and sounds a lot more like digital hw than a soft synth.
The U-HE compressor presswork is great for a coloured processor too, really great sound.
The DMG Audio eq+compressors are amazing. The eq’s are perfectly clean, where as, quite surprisingly the izotope ones had distortion, very low -80db, but still very odd, the izotope curves actually drawn are not as good as the graph shows either.
This is an amazing app for testing out plug ins and seeing the actual compression curves, eq curves and THD.
I’m suprised to hear some people prefer DAWs for composition. I guess it depends what you’re used to and what you’re doing. I prefer not being able to see too much info and just work from the sound over time.
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Thanks,
Ha ha , should have known you mention the buchla.
Yes, had much fun making ( ok, never finishing as always…) pure arturia buchla elektro.
When i then wanted to add a normal nice pad sound, I seem to not find something or cant dial in something nice.
I love pads on A4, also robert hoodesque filter stuff, that also I cant find or dial in somewhere somehow, or change synth too fast without good results.
@DimensionsTomorrow: Great
Btw for instant brutal sound i could recomend monovoks, a polyvoks replika on the reaktor userlibrary. Its just that I’m allergig to the hammmer and sickle for decoration that the guy added.
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So I got the V Collection 7 with new OBXa as a bonus. I think it cost me $250 due to a crossgrade discount from some old free product.
Anyway, the OBXa is definitely my go to pad synth now!
are they collect all saved individually or just saved individually?
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just ‘save as’, i’ll start using the ‘collect all and save’ and see if that helps. should i be doing that even if i’m not using audio files that are stored in multiple files elsewhere on my hd?
yes, always use collect all and save.
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Well, it’s like everything else which becomes a habit: you don’t need to think about the details anymore (am I really not using any audio files from somewhere else?).
Computers are good about caring about such minor details … 
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Maybe it sounds ridiculous, but given the preference of hardware over software when it comes to tactile response, it’s surprising there aren’t more, if any, 1:1 hardware controllers for software instruments.
Maybe it’s a bad idea due to updates, but if u look at ableton and logics core instruments, they haven’t changed for decades. It seems silly to want to make dedicated hardware that controls Ableton Operator, but isn’t that the difference / what everyone wants? To be able to plug in and have instant 1:1 control without mapping.
In that way ITB to me = the tedium / distaste for mapping. And when you look at digital synths anyway, there’s almost nothing that says they couldn’t just be hardware controllers for software virtual instruments. That’s essentially what they are, you’re paying for the hardware.
It just surprises me that it isn’t more of a thing - midi software controllers are completely generalist, rather than specific/dedicated.
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For info: If the disco dsp guy understood me correctly at the kvr forum obxd never had automation drawing. He said
he will implement it in a version 2. Great free or donation obxa emulation.
About the box, record on how much can be crammed into a small box ( iphone ):
the russian sunvox tracker 
Some bucks for mobile, free on other platforms.
Reminds me of buzz and also that maybe i should buy audiomulch while its not completely dead for my hp laptop.
64 bit mac ( catalina ) : no more audiomulch 
The vibe you get while playing propels the music in part. For me that comes from needing to think less, and so I use a varying hardware/software set up, tailored to the song’s feel each time. Of course, changing set up is a “time cost” so I get why people try to hammer their set up down once and for all. I’ve just never been able to get there and gave up. Whatever works is always a good philosophy to me.
You probably sold more blackboxes just talking about it here on the forum than their actual advertising did. You should be a consultant on the MKII.
Where is the BB KEYS?!
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I know, right? Still love the damn thing. But that sixteen slot limit kept eating at me.
Problem is, a dedicated controller would be competing with every other controller for market share while potentially being seen as something with limited functionality compared to the generalist controllers. Seems like a pretty risky financial move.
I think Nektar had a pretty good solution. They were bang on with how they did their Panorama mapping templates for Reason - which included instrument control. No setup, just plug and play. Not sure how they went in the long run but I know they had been working on templates for the other DAWs (including Logic).
It’s an interesting discussion, the lack of 1:1 software synth controllers.
@mattleaf, I agree with @rex_mundii’s points about competing with other controllers in the market, but also want to add that this concept of software synth + dedicated controller is competing with cheap analog as well.
One of the few companies making dedicated controllers, Soundforge, is very small and competing, in a sense, with Behringer, the behemoth.
For instance, you could use Monark or Diva or Mini V (so let’s say $100 minimum for the software, if you’re shopping around, maybe looking for a license transfer), with a Soundforge SFC-Mini ($240).
That $340 is competing with a $299 Behringer Model D . Or a $399 Roland SE-02
And granted, you don’t get the patch memory you would have from the software+controller option, and there’s an argument to be made that Behringer is actually losing out on a huge opportunity for folks to use these cheap offerings as MIDI controllers, and that Soundforce is perhaps quite lucky that Behringer hasn’t built in a robust MIDI CC# spec into their budget synths.
But the point is, the value proposition exists to a greater degree in the real, analog, thing.
Yea, they’re almost apples and oranges comparisons, but if you have $300-$400 which option are most people more likely to spend it on? Few would opt for both so it really is one or the other.
Personally, I’m quite happy with my pair of MIDI controllers that get me close enough to muscle memory that I don’t mind that they aren’t 1:1. What I lose in not having 1:1 I gain in other areas.
The MIDI Fighter Twister, which is ultra configurable in terms of programming the LED color, layout, and dot behavior, allows me to create custom maps for my U-he synths that work quite well. Whether Repro 1, Repro 5, Ace, or Zebra 2… Osc types, levels, pitches, filters, envelopes, LFO rate, depths… all are set up the same on the Twister, and color coded to make logical sense.
My other controller is the Native Instruments M32 which, along with the Komplete Kontrol VST, gives me automatic mapping for 90% of the parameters on synths from NI, Arturia, Brainworx, Unfiltered, U-He, AAS, as well as some 3rd party NKS support I’ve paid for to get those same features working in my Synplant, Iris 2, Thorn, Lush 101, and TAL synths.
It’s a total party and the more I work in one synth VST via the KK VST wrapper, the more I remember what is where. So a bit of a “best of both worlds” situation. Loads of instant control without having to worry about mapping, and a single interface for (and I am not exaggerating) 59 different software instruments on my computer…
The thing is the is the size of a Keystep (and quite similar). Has an arp, scale mode, chord mode, and DAW control built in and takes up relatively little space on my desk. I keep it right above the keyboard and mouse so it is always within reach.
And I won’t even go into the NKS previews function which allows you to surf your Kontakt and Reaktor libraries with instantaneous ease.
I think what NI has focused on is “reducing friction”, which is to say, minimizing any aggravation that comes with setup, configuration, lack of compatibility, etc.
They’ve made a seamless system that one can plug into any DAW.
I don’t have to use Machine to get the most out of their offerings. I can use the DAW I’ve come to know for the last 17 or so years, and it just works.
Is it limited? Sure, everything is.
Would more little screens under the knobs like the S-MK1 series be nice? Sure.
Would those be nicer than the 5k iMac display that is just above the keyboard? Not a chance. So no need to bother.
The point I am trying to make is there are a lot of reasons some solutions work while others don’t. The industry is moving more toward portability, compatibility, and integration. These things are somewhat antithetical to the software + 1:1 controller scheme, so I don’t expect to see much development in that space.
Though I do applaud Soundforce for their efforts. The new MK2s they’ve come out with look very nice, though with the caveat that as soon as you change patch memories, most of the knobs need to re-pickup their position (would love to see them do a Nord Rack 3 style encoder based controller line).
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Yeah , that’s why I prefaced that idea with it being ridiculous. Still, the market isn’t a one size fits all, and people looking for one thing aren’t necessarily going to buy something else because it’s the same price, they just want to buy that thing.
That said it certainly is an issue, what one could get in terms of ‘real’ hardware for the same price. I think Elektrons approach is quite unique with Overbridge, it really is a bridge between the two worlds. With Elektron you can have both an ITB and an OTB workflow with the same device, that really is to be commended.
I think that’s a road that more companies should walk down. If Ableton in particular were to release an Operator or Wavetable hardware device that was similar, and whatever patches you created on the device were accessible in Live when you plugged back in, I’d probably buy it. There’s a world of opportunity for those top end of town DAW companies if they would see it, and who knows in what direction it could go. But that’s probably one of the safest bets. And it’s a gripe I’ve always had with Push - without Live, it’s pretty lifeless.
The NI integration looks cool and I have been tempted by the S series on a number of occasions, but again that ghost vibe of it just being a controller, a kind of background OTB desire leaves me keeping away.
So maybe I contradict my original point in some senses. I think I would buy a dedicated hardware controller for a VSTi, but it would be ace if it did things out of the box also.
I think the recent EC4 from Faderfox is pretty cool, at the least it gives u visual readout of what you’ve assigned. I’ve got a Twister also but can often get lost in what I’ve got going on without digging around tracks trying to see what’s mapped, that at a glance readout could be pretty helpful.
And the laptop or pc, thought of as a central brain, probably goes beyond any hardware synth in terms of raw power and capability. If a computer can just be a central hub in that way and I wind up with a bunch of units connected to it that get the job done, it’s a good way of looking at it. But I guess at the end of the day it’s kind’ve about tether vs being free and portable with your gear.
So I have used my MS as a controller and sequencer for Live’s drum racks. Of course you can’t p-lock over MIDI but sequencing plus CC control goes a long way.
Assigned the knobs to software functions that match their hardware functions (filter, decay, lfo, etc).
Quite handy.
MC is capable of this as well.
Could certainly use it with Operator if you made an instrument rack with macros, and of course: 6 tracks!
Maybe working with Oversynth for an overlay that is dedicated to your MIDI/VST needs, that can be removed when you want to unplug from the computer and use it standalone.
Have your cake and eat it too.
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Speaking off controllers and have best of both worlds - the TR-8S and MC707 both send CCs. The 8S can send CCs from the faders while the 707 can’t (right now).
Anyway, proper mapping and you can live jam your hardware into Ableton while controlling Ableton or mapped VST effects.
Also, I want to put a plug in for the APC 40 MKI or II for performance and basic Ableton controls (start stop mute solo). I prefer the APC hands down over the Push.
I found @jdaddyaz‘s post about Madlib only using an iPad now quite interesting in terms of this topic. He says in this video he’s only used an iPad for something like seven or eight years now. 
His work with Freddy Gibbs has been some of his best stuff, so I think it really underscores that it’s not about the gear and you should just use what you like.
In some ways it also reminds me of this killer video a drummer friend of mine sent me of this guy destroying it on a kid’s Spongebob Drum kit. I love this video. Check out his drum & bass groove halfway through.
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