TS vs TRS

OK finally read that through a few times and definitely understand things much better.
So it would be a wise idea to read the manual on my devices and see what’s balance and unbalance and choose connections accordingly.

I have come across and issue with the Deco only where it has a stereo input TRS connection or maybe not? Maybe it’s unbalanced and the jumper inside converts it to stereo on the outputs. I was plugging a TRS to the Input of the Deco, and a TRS out from the single port send from my mixer and getting strange results.
So the send port on my mixer may be unbalanced, as well as the input on the Deco.
Something I need to research to make sure I am choosing the right cable with proper jacks on both ends.

I also tend to use the XLR Master outs of my mixer with gold plated mogami TRS 1/4in plug to my monitors. I like the loud clean sound of that.
However when I take that to a venue I usually have a sound guy telling me my signal is way too hot.
I should probably just use XLR out’s with XLR on the other end for the sound guy correct?

ALSO, any of yall got tips on quality short cables, some with 90degree angles some not?
Any “Definitely DONT go with brand X?”

Yeah, I could see that being fiddly. The aux send from the mackie is balanced. The input of the Deco is switchable between unbalanced mono and unbalanced stereo. If you use a TRS, the Mackie will send a balanced signal. If the Deco is set to stereo, you’ll get cancellation or phasing.

But seeing as you’re connecting the Deco to the aux anyway, I think you intend to use it in mono mode, right? And the Mackie manual calls out that all its ports (except inserts) work fine with unbalanced TS cables. So I’d set the Deco into mono mode, and use a TS between them. That way you can be sure both sending/receiving exactly what you expect.

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Cool!
Thanks for walking me through all this and getting my head caught up with things.
I’m about to spend money on cables to tighten up my rig and want to make sure I’m doing it the best I can at this point.

So I found this thread

Looks like Balanced outs for the OT and unbalanced inputs.
Someone claims they did an AB comparison and balanced cables were noticeably different, not sure if they meant that for the Inputs.

I think the RNC has unbalanced inputs and outputs. I’ve been using it with TRS to TS insert cables for both channels (with the TS side connected to the RNC), or with TS to TS cables on each channel. The only time I connect a TRS jack into the RNC is when I use an insert cable for the sidechain send+return.

So when you mentioned it does weird things with TRS, do you mean when connecting the TRS side of a cable into the RNC input/output jacks? I’ve never done that. I’m curious to know what happens, although I probably won’t try it.

I love that little thing, it truly is a really nice compressor.

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Yeah. I mean that, normally, if you have source that is mono balanced and a destination that is mono unbalanced, you can connect them via TRS without issue (though always check the manuals first) because the unbalanced side will either ignore the balanced signal (nothing is connected to the ring) or, worst case, ground it out (because the thing that is touching the ring is expecting it to be sleeve. But this is pretty rare in any mass-produced socket).

This is good because it means you can usually (always check manuals, etc. etc.) swap balanced and unbalanced gear on the other side of a balanced connection without having to pull out and replace the cable (or patchbay wirings).

But, unexpectedly, the unbalanced, mono inputs of the RNC do not ignore the ring. They don’t even ground it out. The opposite, in fact, they send the output over it! So if you plug a TRS cable between a balanced mono output and the RNC input, it could actually damage your output device!

The RNC has its own reasons for doing this: it lets you hook it up to the insert of a desk (which expects return on the ring) without any adapters. Yay. But it’s undeniably weird and goes against the common wisdom. And is not labeled with nearly enough :exclamation:s and :warning:s IMHO :slight_smile:

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I am totally confused now. I assume that I need two TRS cables to connect my M:C to my 404mkII?

As an exercise, let’s break it down:

The Model: Cycles

The M:C has two ways to get signal out. “MAIN OUT” and “HEADPHONES”.

“MAIN OUT” has a separate jack for L and R, so we know each is mono. If we want to send a both to another device, we’ll need two cables.

But what kind of cable? We don’t know yet if these ports are balanced or unbalanced. Checking out the manual, it says MAIN OUT is balanced if we use TRS cables but unbalanced if we use TS:

This is the normal behavior of balanced outputs, by the way. But it’s really nice of the manual to spell it out for us like this! Elektron documentation is good.

HEADPHONES has only a single jack. Is that use for mono or stereo signal? Because it’s for headphones, we could assume stereo, but we check the manual to be sure:

Yup. Stereo. Stereo over a single cable means we have to use TRS so we can use the T for the left and R for the right.

The SP-404mkII

Now let’s look at the 404mkII. It has a LINE IN that has an L and an R jack. We can therefore assume each expects a mono signal.

But does it want the signal balanced or unbalanced? Roland documentation is the worst, but we can tell they want unbalanced because it doesn’t mention anything about balance for the LINE IN but does for the LINE OUT:

Putting Them Together

Seeing as the 404 has a separate L and R jack for its LINE IN, and the M:C has separate L and R jacks its MAIN OUT, the easiest thing would be to just connect the two using two cables. What kind of cables? Well the 404 suppors TS, and the M:C supports either TRS or TS. The lowest common denominator there is TS, so I’d use that (though, in practice, if you only had TRS cables around it probably wouldn’t hurt anything).

What if we wanted to use the HEADPHONE output of the M:C instead? Well, now we’ve got both L and R on one TRS cable, and the 404 is expecting L and R over individual jacks. So we’d have to split the signal before it got to the 404 with a “breakout cable” like this:

It just takes the T and R of a TRS and splits it into two separate TS.

And that pretty much covers all the possibilities. If I’ve overlooked anything, please ask about it. I think breaking down examples like this is invaluable to picking this stuff up.

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As I and @jemmons have pointed out it’s important to differentiate between a stereo output jack and a balanced mono output jack.

TRS connectors are commonly used for both balanced interconnects and stereo outputs (such as headphones) for price, convenience and space saving as TRS are usually cheaper than XLR and take up less panel space.

Good advice above about reading documentation regarding what’s balanced and what isn’t. Even if you open up a bit of gear and see TRS sockets it’s no guarantee that those inputs/outputs are balanced, it’s not uncommon to see TRS sockets where there’s just an unbalanced signal. Prob down to cost and manufacturing (using one socket type for all applications.)

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Every piece of gear is different which means theres not a one size fits all approach. Best practice is to look at the manual for the piece of gear in question and go from there. As far as i can remember all elektron gear is trs balanced outs but can be used with ts unbalanced cables.

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This turned into a highly informative thread about the boring ins and outs of music gear.
Thanks for all yall chiming in!

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Nothing remotely boring about f for me! :sunglasses:

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I enjoy it too!
It might be the acid talking tho
Happy fryday kiddos

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Bruh :*

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Just read again and LINE OUT is TRS balanced on the 404. Shouldn’t be the conclusion to use also TRS for LINE IN?

I appreciate the hidden dad joke in there. My other suggestion that no one asked for is to learn how to make your cables if you haven’t already. You’ll save money, time and cables will be exactly how long you like them. Extra bonus if you have ocd and need all ur cables to be the same :joy::sweat_smile:

OH I’m an avid make it yourself kinda character indeed.
I’ll be buying jacks and my favorite colored cables cut to the perfect length when this is all over

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This cid is really good btw, not that anyone asked, but WHEW