Wondering are there any good “alternatives” for complex type of delay “a la Valhalla Delay” in a format of guitar pedal?
Need long delay times like +12sec, different delay types (incl. some exotic ones like in Valhalla plugin ), pitch modulation (perfectly with rhythmic pitch “sequences” ), true reverse mode, filters.
One of the candidates is Pigtronix Echolution 2.
Another one is Chase Bliss Thermae, but it’s a bit “not available” and prices are insane on reverb since last 6 months (like 700$ - 800$ ).
Eventide Rose maybe.
Wondering is there something else I miss?
Still don’t understand why Valhalla don’t do hardware, I’m sure it could be an instant success.
When you starting to play with them in person differences became more and more obvious.
This Printronix is quite powerful, despite old, like it has 10 lfo waveforms, strange modes like bit crush delay, ducking delay, etc, looper mode, 2 taps, 5 filter types, and 12 seconds…
Meris unfortunately out (nice ideas with Polymoon, but only 1200ms, which isn’t work for infinite “sound on sound” type of thing… ).
Strymon - I like the sound, but features - they all, even Time Line, doesn’t go too far into extremes with modulation, etc… More like good quality traditional emulation of classic delays.
Beebo, Tempus and H9 are good, but depends if one likes this type of control (mostly app or pc programming). I have Eventide H8000FW, there are lot’s of algos already, and Valhalla Delay on the screen, but want something with knobs and buttons, it’s not the same thing for immediate control and more “integration” into playing…
Another cool and crazy one is Delay Llama Extreme, basic but very nice!
the valhalla delay has very little modulation… only on some modes and some parts of the mode. though, being a plug in you can of course automate everything.
even so, finding a pedal that has a bunch of modes, with pitch shifting on some of the modes and frequency shifting on others… + diffusion and well over 100% feedback is a tough thing to find.
there’s a lot of good stuff in the H9 and you can control w/a iOS device very simply.
i think you can probably find something you like that has knobs and buttons and an interface that works for you but it will be its own thing and have its own sound. i find w/hardware devices like that it’s best to just embrace them for what they can do and figure out how to make the most of them… rather than expect them to be like a plug in or hardware rack FX unit.
you may end up with more than one device… which wouldn’t be a terrible solution
delay pedals are fun things to research and try out.
well, that’s a totally different thing. they didn’t do the hardware for that at all. it was a well established platform and valhalla made algorithms for it that live on a card that can be changed to have other algorithms. it’s also a very different process. he worked for a long time to get his ideas to run well on that old ass spin chip. it’s really quite remarkable what he squeezed out of it. he said he learned a lot from that experience. i beta tested both the cards he made for the Zdsp and still have the beta versions as well as the final versions and there’s things in the beta versions that he scrapped that are pretty awesome.
anyway. . he had nothing to do w/designing the hardware. i think at one time he was looking into collaborating with a pedal maker. designing hardware is a very different thing to making plug ins. it takes a long time to prototype a hardware product and bring it to market and distribute it.
the eurorack market is very different to the fx pedal market. eurorack is a nightmare for a lot of people. the margins suck, the market is actually pretty small and the used market is massive. there are many more guitarists who buy pedals than there are people who buy eurorack modules.
but the pedal/desktop FX market is getting more crowded too… also more interesting.
i think it’d make more sense for sean to partner/collaborate w/someone than make his own platform and produce and do it all himself. if there was a way he could port versions of some of his work to a hardware platform that’d be cool.
i wouldn’t expect it though. i’m sure he has plenty of ideas to flesh out in software-land.
Sounds like you want something like the Eventide Time Factor (reverse delay, mod delay, bitrate reduction delay etc, lots of feedback available, plus knobby interface that the H9 doesn’t have) but with the Rose’s longer delay time. TF is maximum 3 seconds, longer than Strymon but well short of the Rose. Tough one. Maybe Zoia could cover some of that ground?
Time Factor is cool indeed, but still on the “traditional” side, at least for my distorted vision. Also short time.
What I’d love to have is not many independent modes, but deep and handy real time control on things like frwrd/reverse delay / pitch-speed of delay in semitones-octaves / add-remove bit reduction / various modulation options (nice to have time modulation envelope triggered via incoming signal… like in old Lexicon PCM42).
So all available without mode switching and control is handy and good for real time performance, so delay here isn’t perceived as an “effect”, but as a standalone instrument - “sound canvas”.
Valhalla is totally amazing as such a tool, will use it a lot definitely!
And yes, having all in one box is tough choice. Different things give different results, so I just researching on things I might miss.
Thermae is really interesting one. Hope to have it back in production so prices will get back to norm.
You could also look at the Empress Echosystem although I don’t know about it’s max delay time. For “endless” delay you could also try a Blooper and use the loop layers as delay lines! If you want to be more experimental. Not stereo tho.
Echosystem is only 1.2secs,
honestly I would prefer something like 120secs…
Otherwise nice modern versatile delay.
Blooper and so many other looper solutions are cool, but they lack those little things only delay can provide, for example, real time feedback control for slow loop “fade out” with filtering, degrading etc… if you trying to create “evolving”, organic things and play with it in a real time, it’s essential…
I figured out that there are actually not too many nice solutions for thins type of thing.
seems it has nice and quite unique function to shift 2 loops relative to each other and thus get a kind of Steve Reich shifting rhythms. There’s same type of algo in H8000 (forgot the name, something to deal with “loops”… crystal loops or something… ), but it has 4 loops and total control over this type of shift, time and feedback of each. That is total “cosmos”…
Other than that unique function this Soma is quite basic and inflexible, so no big deal for me.
The only problem with H8000 which I adore is the lack of hands on control, even if I assign params to midi controller I always forget which knobs do what… and… it’s far from being immediate.
So what’s why I also love Valhalla Delay for looping - clear interface. And also important - really really nice sound.
And the second part - no… Loopers as we have it now are more or less “samplers with instant record/play”, that’s it, you can change global pitch on some of them, make some transformations to samples… yeah, but it’s still like a file player, different thinking.
Looping delay technique has a bit different nature - you can modulate the delay time for example with LFO and you immediately change pitch and the time of your loop, dive into very distinct sonic textures while still adding new sounds into the delay “tail”, then play over it again, add something to this “sequenced delay line”, reverse it, modulate again, change feedback a bit to let it slowly fade but then add new things to it. All on the fly and it leads to incredible textures, really different approach, very alive and inspiring.
I discovered it not long time ago learning from some pioneers of looping like Terry Riley, Fripp, some other avantgarde guitar players. So learning this deeper and discovering amazing things…
I actually have started to kind of dislike all these modern VST & VST in a box type of reverbs. They just lack character, or have too much character and make everything sound samey. They’re not realistic but not really “musical” or interesting either. IDK, maybe i’m just bitter I can’t afford one.
Ah, now I see where you’re going…I played around with loops that slowely drifted apart to create intertwining textures in my OT (or tried to) with OTs delay for extra sauce which can sound amazing with subtle pitch modulation (pseudo-random waveform drawn in lfo designer +/- 3 above 0 line for super subtle pitch modulation, lfo depth around 1-3).
No idea why I abandoned those experiments…
Anyways, Eventide Rose seems interesting!
Boss DD500 wasn’t mentioned, yet (10 sec max delay time, lots of settings and modulation possibilities). Check the manual, there’s quite lot going on under the hood.
Strymon Magneto (maybe?) - only 2 min max delay time, but seems tailored to delay loop play.