For your first question a lot of the patches on M have the VCA is fully opened by the amp envelop so trying to push it higher ends up doing nothing, that is why you only hear it work in the inverse. From the init patch set up for what ever reason sustain is maxed and the envelope amount is also maxed (doesn’t seem like the best init patch in that regard) so yeah turn down 1 or both of those and you should be able to modulate upwards.
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Oh so it’s a waveshaper and then a filter, makes more sense now, I was wondering how a filter could be a waveshaper, just wasn’t computing. Thanks for the XT manual tip, I’m sure its going to give these goodies a lot more context.
Sounds like the exponential FM will be fine for me making atonal kind of techno noises and stabs. I think the LFO is limited to only 60Hz or something, but I will try. It’s fine if there isn’t real FM, there is still so much to do here.
:::edit::: wow I didn’t know that the even the concept of the EXTRA parameter is in keeping with the design of the XT. Really cool, just saw it in the manual. And I guess we have 2 ways to kind of do FM, one with a fast LFO, and another with the FM + Lowpass.
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What you’re saying makes sense because I was hearing stronger modulation last night when I turned down the envelope knob a little bit. But bringing it down to 0 turned off the sound entirely from what I remember, so it was no modulation at 64 some at like 30 and no sound at 0. Going to give it another go. Appreciate the insight.
:::Edit::: okay still can’t get AMP modulation to play nice, but found this on page 42 in the manual:
You need use the VCA envelope by setting its envelope amount or velocity parameters different to 0; otherwise there will be no output at all. Therefore you must define the volume envelope in a useful way even if you intend to use another envelope to shape the sounds loudness.
So you can’t just turn down the VCA with a knob and use the wave envelope. You have to leave the knob turned up if you want the M to make sound. The only thing I could get to work was turning the VCA ENV Amt up, and setting the VCA mod for the wave envelope to a negative value. So it plays the wave envelope upside down. What a pain. Should not be this hard to do something so simple
Not to sound rude, but :
This synth is designed as a copy of the Microwave I with a better front panel. This is how the MW I works. Hundreds (thousands?) of tracks have been made with it. It can be done 
It might be helpful to read the Microwave I programming manual for details about the modifier system (you can get it at the Waldorf site or just google the PDF)
edit: https://cloud.waldorfmusic.com/index.php/s/3Fo7zmdi9pRZkxR/download
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It’s okay, I expect to be flamed for complaining. But the VCA mod page feels like a dirty trick so far. The controls are right there, but they don’t do what you want them to do unless you know some kind of secret recipe between them, the panel knobs, and your mod source/sidechain.
I’ll just use my octatrack to manage volume modulations, I’ve already suffered through the learning curve of that thing 
Wecome to the M lol. My dirty trick page is the LFO1 page where you have the sync on/off, delay, and decay settings. You have to set decay to 127 if you want the lfos to be in sync with no decay when sync is on (if you don’t do this then the lfos just wont be there on some voices). And if you want the lfos to restart on each keypress the secret setting is to set delay to 1.
Working with the M really feels like working with an old rack sampler from the 80s/90s.
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What so you mean by no decay when sync is on?
If you set decay to something other than 127 then the effect of the lfos will decay over time. So if you want no decay you have to set it to 127.
If you have sync off it can also be set to 0, but for some reason if sync is on and decay is set to 0 the synced lfos decay too fast for you to even hear their effect so you only get an LFO on one voice most of the time (the master voice all the others are synced to).
Hope that made sense.
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Thank you; great job clarifying.
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But it makes sense, right? It is a modifier applied to a modulator.
Do you suggest 127 to be renamed as “hold” to make it easier?
I think it would make the most sense if a value of 0 acted the same whether or not sync was on and didn’t totally glitch out the synced lfos.
The workflow on the M is a bit annoying and refreshing at the same time. But when you get your head around how it works it makes sense. Its like traveling back in time to when everything wasnt completely standarized.
Another little thing about LFO 1 is delay parameter. Set it to 1 gives you retrigged lfo on keypress. If you turn on sync and set delay to 1, LFO 2 also retrigs. But pretty sure that is a bug.
Another thing is that the envelopes has a constant rate instead of time. So having an time 1 value of 20 will be longer if the level 1 is set to 127 than 10.
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I think that is the correct way, and that its a bug that occurs when delay is set to 0.
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I didn’t get that. Are you talking about the LFO envelopes?
No. The regular envelopes. Its not that noticeable on the adsr’s, but if you start using the wave and free envelope you notice it. I wanted to scroll through a wavetable, and have it “sustain” a little while on one wave, then go on to modulate it further.
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I see. I didn’t get your sentence exactly, the formulation. But I definitely experienced something that I didn’t fully get between time and level. That could be it.
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Oooooh so this is what is going on, thanks I was a bit unsure about how the times were working and now I know why!
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Yeaaah… I think I’m just gonna embrace the serendipity 
Thanks so much for the explanations, can’t find this anywhere else.
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Yeah somehow it’s “interesting” to have re-creating all oddities of the MW, one could have “fixed” some parts, or offered alternative behaviors (for envelopes, for LFOs).
I love the M as it is, brings me good sounds! And I enjoy looking for sounds, I come fast to things I like and that’s what matters most to me
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I sold my super 6 because of the too quirky workflow, but the M, although also quirky, is quirky in a nostalgic/endearing way. Like even if it never got another update I would be happy with it (well I haven’t tried multi-mode yet). It feels like you are using an old classic. Super 6 was quirky in a wtf/ugh when will this be fixed kind of way.
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