What makes something "live"?

The Lounge General Discussion
#141

Many great points in this thread!

This is an interesting take as I am now wondering why you would think that playing your music live to an audience is masturbatory? And wether any live performance is an act of self agrandisation. Because for me, when I get to see an artist I like live, I go there because I want to immerse myself in this artist’s music for an hour and a half, and only his, because I love his music and I’d be disappointed if he played anyone else’s. So a live performance HAS to be masturbatory, and a DJ playing music he likes to a crowd can be considered a very selfish act too from the same point of view. It could be “I know all this great music and I want to share” but also “I have the best taste in music, and you’re all going to dance to what I like!”

Anyway, you created, produced, arranged this music, it’s work, you believe it’s good, and playing it live is a way for you to display it to the world in very specific conditions, but also the ultimate test in a certain way. It’s a very selfish act, but also very humble, like “here’s what I do, hope you like it?”
For a long time it’s been the only way to share your own music and try to get it into the ears of people who might like, and I think it’s the best way for you to build an audience who might want to come back to see you because they like your music. It’s the best way to kickstart this vertuous circle.

I’ve kind of embraced the semi-live/semi-DJ way of doing things, I’ve split my songs into tracks, build some intro and outro loops but have my whole main arrangements intact in the middle. Of course I can cut things and send to effects, but I also want to showcase all the work I’ve done in the studio. So there are parts where I need to work to get things to move on, and there are other parts where I can sit back and let the song happen, but soon enough I have to work again. Because I think there should be some work on the stage, but I also think a lot of has already been done in the studio, and you don’t want to ruin it live either.

Just my point of view.

And with a few examples of how I would play if I could :slight_smile:

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#142

@Martebar first, thanks for you extensive thoughts and I think you make a lot of great points. My thinking in that quote didn’t have enough context. Also, I will absolutely check out those links as it seems we are on the same page.

W/o going into too much detail, in recent years my one yearly gig as been at a small hippie/pagan arts and music festival. My partner designs a new stage/tent each year with a theme, and I DJ for about 3 hours for three nights over the week long fest. I’m basically a no-name, it isn’t a dance music festival, and people come to us because we play the “hardest” music at the festival and have a cool setup. (otherwise they have live bands/and various other acts at a stage from 8pm-11pm, then the only other option is live hand drumming at a bonfire)

I love that audience dearly but they are just there to party and I respect that. So my thinking has always been what is my “making it live” adding to their experience of partying? I’ve always played my own music in those DJ sets, to applause in a few cases (I’m sure the shrooms and mead going around helped me a little bit in that regard).

Now ya’ll got me thinking deep on a Sunday afternoon. And I feel like I guess I miss that element of danger that used to come along with the dance music scene with illegal venues, or will the PA system shit out, or will the record skip because the setup is on a card table we stole from grandma’s house. So live = danger? I don’t even know if it is really nostalgia tho.

I just want to see a shake up in dance music. Like…mf’rs don’t even dance at dance parties anymore lol. Like why you even at a house/techno party if you aren’t there to dance? You can do drugs at home and the booze is cheaper.

I guess I’m just having a massive personal crisis of goals for my music. When I was doing my MFA in creative writing I had a pretty clear vision of what I wanted my thesis to be, accomplished that, and my professors and peers all said “you planned out a vision and accomplished it” --but I knew who I was writing for.

Maybe I"m too obsessed with audience. I’ll happily noodle my life away in obscurity as far as beat making goes but I want to finish something and know who I’m aiming it at. To just say “this is what I do” and throw it at people seems foreign to me (in part because of academic training).

I also have no desire to be a part of the current “dawless jammin” online culture. They can do what they do and I’m happy for them enjoying it, but it isn’t my scene.

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#143

@Martebar really great stuff on your SoundCloud links there. Haven’t listened to it all but ticked through for highlights and what I heard was really solid.

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#144

I think for me the audience first must be myself, especially at this level. I am the most important listener out of them all. Sure I want people to enjoy what I’m making and provide positive feedback if they do. But if I’m not enjoying the process or there’s something with my setup or sound that doesn’t sit right with me, trying to figure out who I’m making stuff for is pretty pointless.

I’m not saying the listener doesn’t matter but the first listener has to be me. I think taking audience into account works best only once I’ve sorted out my own process and style and find myself happy with that. At that point I can meld to feedback and begin consider to consider what others would want but not until I’ve already dialed in where I’m going in a general way.

This thought obviously doesn’t apply to a beginner but more to an intermediate / advanced hobbiest, DJ, producer, what-have-you. And take this all with a grain of salt because according to various analytics I have an audience of all of 104 peoole.

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#145

The definition that works best for me is, as others have said above: is there risk?
That seems metaphysically weird, because that’s not a quality of the music itself, or even of a process, nor something that the audience necessarily knows.
But for me, psychologically, it works.
Example: I experimented with playing sets where I simply had backing tracks off a laptop and did vocals over the top. To me, that felt live – not so much because of the vocals, but because in the context of those shows (not performing to an ‘electronic’/DJ audience but to a general audience) that is risky! There were people genuinely pissed off that I was playing backing tracks (one of them was giving my gf an earful about it while I played, lol). It felt pretty damn live to me. OTOH, the last show I played was just piano and vocals, and it also felt very live because - while it’s a very conventional/acceptable performance format - I am a shit pianist, and the songs are new, so I had to grimace through a lot of fuck-ups along the way and hope that the music was strong enough to keep the audience in my pocket anyway.

Anyway, probably best not to pretend that everyone wants the same thing from a live show. I want that element of risk as an audience member too, some people won’t notice or care. I get a kick from potentially antagonistic performance situations, that’s my own perversion and I don’t expect everyone to share it.

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#146

I’m a full time musician, but don’t often get paid for electronic stuff. That’s just a fun hobby. The last solo electronic gig I did, I chickened out and put full tracks into Static machines on the OT, set up a bunch of scene fx and played a bit of live synth and bass guitar. It went fine I guess, but I didn’t feel great about having so much pre programmed stuff involved. At the same time, I wanted folks to hear my newest music close to how it was recorded. Interest in electronic music in Nashville, Tennessee is very low and what little there is is more dance oriented and I do mostly odd time glitchy crap :slight_smile:

A buddy of mine played as well. His setup was an OT, modular and a Moog Sub37. His music is way more accessible than mine, but still not dance music. He had one girl come up and ask him if he takes requests(!) and another fella trying to tell him about great EDM records he should listen to and how he should learn about sidechaining to really ‘get things pumping.’ He was just trying to do a very chill set, but a few folks seemed to think he was trying to do dance music, but just wasn’t very good at it :slight_smile:

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#147

A lot of what you write resonates with my current thoughts about playing to live audiences. Regarding the three-night gig you were describing, why wouldn’t you seek to get a sense of your audience and put together a set for them? From what you write I understand that they are not a standard techno/edm crowd, but I think part of what makes music making interesting is to think about the context of which our music is supposed to become a part. I believe one of the big differences between ‘serious’ and dance music is that the latter is always functional, seeking to support movement, ritual, etc. in a given situation. A bit like scoring a movie - music serving a particular (social) purpose.

#148

This is live music just as a drummer is drumming away in a drum set is considered live music. Scratching is a live percussive performance that requires dexterity and countless hours of practice to get right.

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#149

The first year we really had no idea what they would want or like even though I personally had already been to the festival 6-7 years running and my partner had been going probably twice as long.

All We knew there were fewer and fewer 20 somethings going and they kind all made their own camp in a remote part of the site and kind of didn’t interact with the rest of the festival. The land owners/promoters liked the idea of having a DJ and a dance tent to try and bring the 20 somethings back into the fold as it were. They had been timid about inviting a “rave DJ” because of drugs etc. While people party its like a chill shrooms, beer and joints crowd. But they were comfortable with people they knew trying it out. We only knew we would be something different.

So the first year we decided one night I would basically play traditional disco/funk and made it a dress up night. All ages loved that. Second night I did middle of the road house and techno, again, people showed and really liked the music, this crowd was defo younger and told us they wanted more “EDM”. The third night I tried playing…ugh…I hate the term…but more like “world music” four to the floor dance stuff and it was a huge flop for the first hour or so I just started playing a mix of the left over songs from my previous two sets and it popped off–we concluded it was too much like what was going on at the stage where the bands played.

The next year we adjusted, kept the disco/funk night on, I played harder house and techno in the middle of the week (I always play MWF of the 7 days) and then chill it out on Fridays to let the festival’s main acts shine during their time. And bam we found the formula the second year.

I just never saw adding a live element as adding anything to that formula besides bringing and risking more gear in a place that gets crazy, sudden weather changes.

Also, my partner (not romantic, just lets say business partner) bless his heart is also kind of totally ignorant to what I do, thought when I said “live” the first time it would some kind of karaoke lol.

I’m not sure putting “InTheAM performs dance music live” on our flier and in the festival program would have helped. Probably wouldn’t have hurt. It felt like the result would have been neutral to the over all success/experience and a lot more work for me and me was the only person getting an extra satisfaction.

There are a lot of classes and workshops at the festival during the day time (like you can literally go to hippie-pagan school all day this thing) so I have thought about giving a history of dance music or how dance music is made workshop in addition to what I already do.

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#150

…scratching, these days, is like long guitar solos in the 70ies…

#151

From what your describing, I understand why you think that adding a live element to the mix would be inappropriate.

Maybe you could try to do both as separate acts, keep these DJ sets as their own things with your partner, but ask to add a “InTheAM live” slot somewhere to play your own stuff in your own way. It could just be the first hour of your set or something.

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#152

What is your “making it live” adding to your experience of partying ?

#153

That the person or thing breathing life into it can be noticed, felt and appreciated through the performance.

^general response to OP

Edit: Live is also like a series of moments of infinite novelty. Players of instruments are creating an experience - and depending on the instrument; even they don’t necessarily have 100% control of what’s happening. They are shaping the experience by actively listening and I think that’s what makes it live. The conversation between the instrument and the player and the other band mates and the room and the audience if applicable etc. is what makes something live, for example.

Oh and live is like a box of chocolates.

rant time:
in my personal practices – I tend to think of synthesis as live and samples as static. To me, a midi clip triggering an analog synthesizer can often be more “live” than a midi clip triggering a sampler. It’s sort of like the difference between vector and rasterized graphic art. vector perhaps has greater potential for live interaction.

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#154

If your asking me as an audience member what live adds to someone’s performance, a lot these days as I don’t really party anymore and am an audio nerd so it adds interest as far as thinking about how they are doing what they are.

As the performer, it adds a challenge. Im not claiming to be an amazing DJ or anything but I can pretty much wing it at this point as long as Im practicing once or twice a month with a selected collection of tracks.

#155

Some or most of the audience won’t care or know that something is live or how live it really is. Especially because DJs also talk about playing live sometimes which adds to the confusion. On bigger stages the audience can’t see the gear either. Unless there are camera’s or you stand on stage like Richie Hawtin’s Closer. In small venues I see this a lot. People are really interested in what I have in front of me and it certainly adds to the energy when they see I’m feeling it that evening.

In any case, does it really matter if they know or not? I always make sure it’s on the flyer because some audience members might find it interesting which is cool, but ultimately it doesn’t really matter at all.

It’s merely a vehicle to express one self. If the way you perform live makes you happy and full of energy in the moment, this will resonate to the audience. So I agree with @RFJ

What a live performance brings to the audience in.my opinion is a unique sound. Something entirely made by one person. With control over every element, when breaks and transitions start and end, how the set progresses, and what the journey’s going to look like. Not from track to track, but every single moment. It might not be obvious all the time to the dancing crowd, but why should it?

Having said that, I might as well stop asking to put LIVE behind my name on flyers. I just realized that it’s probably more of an ego related thing than it is informative :).

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#156

Allright, so that’s at least two reasons to do it live :slight_smile:

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#157

I think, for me at least, playing “live” was like taking my gear on a walk. That shit needs air sometimes or it’ll get all moldy.

#158

For me at least, improvisation is the key element.

In the scenario where there’s just me - and I’m not playing with my partner, how much can I create something new and different on-the-fly?

So, I now have pre-prepared audio and MIDI clips, which I can mix-in in various combinations, to generate interesting poly-rhythms. A tonally simple bassline means I can use whatever harmonic mode for pads, leads and arps I like on-top, to suit the moment.

…but where to draw the line? Counting angels on the head of a pin I reckon.

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#159

Sorry to resurrect this but I am about to buy underworld tickets for a Friday show. Do they use synths live now ?

#160

To me live means performed in front of people. I say this as a person whose rock n roll band once released a ‘live’ LP of nothing but songs recorded in a studio. Yes there were no overdubs and no effects added after the fact. And yes the songs that one hears when listening to the record are all single uninterrupted, unedited takes. But multiple takes were required to get there. I don’t like it. When you play a show you don’t get multiple takes. You either nail that shit immediately or your band sucks. No two ways about it.

There’s a certain synthfluencer who lives in my town. He has a video all about approaches to live performances in which he says a lot of blah blah like “and then when I did this live set I used this and I did it this way and for that live set I used that and did it that way” and on and on about all these live sets he’s always doing all the time. Then more than year later I saw him play live at the local synthesizer shop and give a little talk after. The first thing he said was how nervous he was because he’d never played in front of people before. Wow. Culture shock?

As far as what level of performance an electronic musician puts in, I’m fairly open minded. I’d hate to think that a musician would bring his devices on stage, press play and then stand back while a prerecorded thing just plays out*. But I also don’t need a whole lot. I spent lots of time DJing in the 90s and 00s and while I tried to stay pretty busy and scratchy with it I still think any DJ that’s beat matching and twiddling EQs/filters on the fly is ‘playing live’ as long as there’s people out front.

*Dude from Sleaford Mods notwithstanding :0)

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