Wind controllers?

Thanks. It’s rather disappointing to see yet another cutting edge inventor and seller of very costly gear relying on Facebook for support, which is so utterly useless for the kind of threaded discussion support issues require. FB is so not designed for this purpose that I can’t understand how people who are so good at what they do can miss the boat so badly when it comes to servicing their paying customers.

I guess I’ll set the motion control idea aside. I don’t want to get into something clunky. I bet Berglund could develop this as an optional add-on feature if there were demand. I mean, if the user’s willing to cover the costs, I would think its as doable as it is on the Sylphyo. Pedals look like a workable idea. Since I didn’t want the battery option, a pedal wouldn’t tether me to the computer any more than I am already.

I’d really like to try the NuRAD with a hardware synth to compare with SWAM and VITAL. I see Eddie EWI doing great demos with a Novation Peak. I wonder how it would work out with the Synclavier Regen?

My guess would be that the PandaMIDI slot could be changed to use an accelerometer board but I don’t know if that is using a fairly common connector.

I believe it’s all using a Teensy controller so there are probably accelerometer options for add on boards and the limiter would probably be making it fit and the firmware work.

I mean you could also probably just email directly, Facebook is just likely going to be a bit faster as anyone using it who knows could help.

As much as I dislike using Facebook, the biggest and most active Wind Controller groups are on there. For instance: https://www.facebook.com/groups/313247028739320

So I consider it more of a necessarily evil for some niche communities like wind synths.

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Realized I missed this question but usually you need to be able to take a look at the MIDI Implementation for most of the hardware ones to see how to route stuff and not all of them have good options depending on what your controller can do.

I think the NuRAD probably has enough breath controller options for CC that it should find a way to work with most but you may be tweaking the setup on the NuRAD for your particular piece of hardware.

From what I’ve seen on the forums, the Novation Peak is pretty popular as well as the Arturia Microfreak and the Behringer Neutron. There’s also a bunch into the various Modal synths and a couple Hydrasynth users (like me). There’s lots of users with a wide variety of different sound modules though beyond the few that happen to be popular.

As far as wind controllers go, the main thing a bunch tend to rate hardware (and software) on is filter zippering as usually routing breath control to the low pass filter cutoff is the number one mod route (and some times the only one). Most synthesizers solve that with some form of interpolation and modulation smoothing but in some cases people want direct CV control of the filter because they feel it gives a better response. The EaganMatrix appears to give direct access to the interpolation controls so it can probably be tweaked for the desired response but in others it’s more hidden and less controllable.

I don’t seem to be one that picks up on filter zippering all that much so I can’t really advise on that aspect.

The Novation Peak tends to fit a lot of the checkmarks for breath control: filter cutoff has double precision internally (256 cutoff values), CC02 as a mod source, good interpolation/smoothing from MIDI, and CV Mod In for direct control. So it’s not surprising its quite popular in the wind synth community.

The main problem I find though with hardware is workflow and you need to find one that the interface and what it can do is enjoyable to tweak around on. You also would want one that isn’t a big deal getting basic breath control setup because outside of a few exceptions like the Anyma sound engine, most will not respond to your wind controller at all without some fiddling in the mod matrix. Workflow is a very personal thing so it’s hard to recommend one synth over another as what I like may not be what you like.

For me personally, I find the workflow for the Hydrasynth Explorer easier to dial in for me than the Novation Peak and I like that it offers a wider variety of different filter/effects/modulation options. I’m also ok with the lack of CV Mod In (though if that was important the Hydrasynth Desktop can do it and has more knobs and displays for macros and sound editing). Also I really like the Random button on the Hydrasynth as it allows finding all kinds of sonically interesting and weird sounds. I still like my Peak but I tend to play more with my Hydrasynth as a result.

If you are okay with staying in software land there’s also good options that work with wind controllers without any of the hassle of fiddling with mod routes and what not like Davidson Audio’s EVI-NER and Lyrihorn or Imoxplus Respiro.

As an aside: there are other ways to get breath control than using the filter cutoff, it’s just the most common and most widely used mechanism. But this post is long enough already.

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Great info, thanks. Yeah, I could see there’s enough tweakability onboard the NuRAD that doing the work to dial stuff in might be necessary. As you point out, for some people, workflow is particularly important, and I’m one of them. I simply do not want to do a whole lot of tedious labor on this. Happily, my Sylphyo Link works great straight out of the box, the lip controller already mapped to one of the motion parameters. So that’s a portable, convenient computer-free synth that will give me bread and butter sounds and response, plug-and-play. I think between that and Stef Haynes’s VITAL patches I purchased, I’m well-covered, and the rest will be gravy.

That leaves me trying to make workable patches with my Iridium Keyboard, which could offer some very cool sonic territory complementary to Sylphyo and VITAL. I’d still be missing at least one naturalistic sax or muted trumpet, but I assume and really hoope I’ll be able to get SWAM working well. The Iridium will take work, but the touch interface with all the knobs to support it takes all the tedium out of it—it’s very immediate, plus I have the keyboard sitting in front of me, too. I did naturally go for mapping aftertouch (channel pressure) to filter cutoff, and in combinations with oscillator level and overall volume, but I haven’t yet been able to get playing response with a musically usable, breath controllable dynamic range. It sounds great, but I just can’t get the range of expression, and I tweak the curves on the NuRAD, too. I only spent maybe 20 minutes, but I hope this doesn’t end up being a big time sink.

About filter zippering, the NuRAD has that EX+ high-res expression mode. I’ve tried that, too without problems, but right now I’m too focused on getting a comfortable and expressive range of soft to loud to fret over the filter response. I don’t want to bother with CV because I like the convenience of plugging in one USB cable into the Iridiumn and playing. In the end, though, I expect I’m fine with software plus the Sylphyo Link; the Iridium would be one big and expensive wind controller sound module.

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There are some people using their Berglund NuEVI/NuRAD with the Iridium so it seems like it can do wind controller stuff: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1007022809731441/posts/1522625548171162/

One thing to remember with dual filter topologies, make sure you have the one you want mapped for cutoff in a serial configuration or it’s going to slip through the other filter. Also typically you’ll want turn off filter key tracking to start.

Other things are if you aren’t using a fixed velocity setting on your controller, you really want to turn off velocity sensitivity in the patch. Usually without that you wind up stuck at an amplifier level that won’t go above the initial velocity of articulation.

On the Waldorf Blofeld I found modulating the overall patch volume helped getting more dynamic range out, not sure how similar the Iridium is.

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Yes, I need that guidance, thanks. I really only know the rudiments of getting a wind controller to mesh with a synth, and that’s not going to be enough for the Iridium, as you point out.

I bought EVI-NER, but I must say I don’t like sound of their other plugins nearly as much. And I’ve liked everything about Respiro since it came out–except the sound. There’s just nothing I like there, and I’ve gone back to it a few times to re-demo. I am looking forward to those guys’ Photon controller if they can ever produce it. Same with Modal Skulpt: just nothing I like. So I guess I’m pretty well set, with the Iridium as the wacked out big footpring experimental machine.

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@adamc: I get no audio output from EVI-NER in Bitwig. I verify that it’s activated, I arm the track, I set the inputs, I can see the EVI-NER interface responding to pitch bend, but there’s never any audio. Meanwhle, VITAL, in the track next to it, works normally. wtf. I try different presets, and everything looks correct in Bitwig, and all my other plugins work in Bitwig. EVI-NER functions correctly in every way except when it comes to producing audio.

ADDED: I installed on a second MacBook and got the same problem. I try playing it via Bitwig’s built-in keyboard, and no audio, so it’s not a NuRAD-related issue.

You could probably fire an email off to the dev as he’s pretty responsive. Might be a little longer response time with the holidays.

It’s been a while since I installed but check that you uninstalled the demo version before installing the retail and check that the track audio outputs are all setup.

Edit: Check that you have the NuRAD sending CC02 not Aftertouch. You have to send breath for this one and my guess is you don’t see anything other than the pitch bend moving.

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Yes, I also emailed the dev, but you were quicker! It was indeed the CC02 not Aftertouch issue.

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Not sure if breath controllers fit here, but has anyone tried AirMotion? Looks like a reasonably priced breath/motion controller, similar to the one that got delayed due to chip shortage (can’t remember the name), but the site looks super sketchy.

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This is pretty cool. A 3-D printable DIY polyphonic wind controller, called the MIDILodica.
It has a grid of buttons on the body of the instrument for playing, plus a screen and buttons for setup.

I queued it to the playing at the end. The chord bend at the end is nice.

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Nice: a simple idea and compact. I’ve been wishing for a true digital melodica, though, with standard black-and-white keyboard layout like a melodica, but all digital so that you can control volume. The biggest con of a melodica is that they’re loud af.

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