So, I just ordered a Presonus Studiolive 16.4.2 Ai :).
Now, BIG question: will it be possible for me to use the separate outs from the AR dry while at the same time sending them through the master bus with all the great FX (incl the analog compressor and distortion)? If so, this would be just awesome - more or less allowing me to use it for mean parallell compression. Or will it only send the FX “naked” without the actual source sounds?
A follow up question to this is also if I might be able to use an Y-split cable to get each 2-voice drum sounds out of AR and then use an Y-split cable to unify them mono in in the mixer? And if THAT would work, how would panning within the AR affect the signal?
Yes, you get master and dry at the same time. The “system menu” lets you chooses which path each track takes (i.e. individual out or master or both or neither).
Sometimes it would be a problem for me actually creating a mix only to realize I had a track coming out both outputs essentially doubling the volume of said track. So I’d dial in the kick and be happy, realize what I did, fix it and then have to redial the kick in to compensate for the volume/presence loss.
Long story short, make surr your routings are correct before mixing.
As for your other question, you need to learn more about ts and trs cables. I dont mean that in a rude way honestly, its just a lot of info to type to explain why it doesn’t work that way. In short, a trs y cable will split the two channels but you need a mixer to convert stereo to mono in any real useable fashion. There may be super tech fancy cables out there that can do this, but a mixer is a staple every musician eventually needs and it will come in handy in more situations than any one cable could. If you dont have one, you need one and you can find very good quality units for under $200 these days. Far cheaper if quality isnt as important. I use amcheap art mixer for my portable writing rig. But I have high ebd units in my studio for actual “final” recordings.
No worries at all, appreciate your reply :). However, I might have been a bit unclear about the context and intentions I have. My main thing to investigate here (after the both individual out & master out question) is if I will be able to send for example BD & BT (from the same direct stereo output) to the same mono channel in my Presonus console - i.e. merging the 2 mono channels into one. I am asking this since I believe that I will probably sum multiple sounds into the same mono space from time to time (let’s say 2 different toms or similar). Maybe you answered this one and I did not understand - sorry if that’s the case :).
Well, don’t think about the two voices coming from the one “output” as a stereo output. Think of them as two mono outputs. This is only done to save space and therefore cost. The “tip” and the “ring” of a TRS cable allow you to send two mono signals over one cable. A TRS Y cable allows you to split the tip and ring into two TS cables (ts cables only allow one channel, ie mono).
So through all of this, you are actually keeping each track source (BD, BT, etc…) on it’s very own channel. What you are talking about doing is merging two channels into one channel. Other than some fancy expensive cables that probably do exist but I’m not aware of, the only way to merge two channels into one is with a mixing device.
If your Presonus console’s input is indeed a mono input (i.e. one channel) then you will need a mixer to mix the two RYTM channels back to one before going to it. If the console’s input is actually a TRS input (sometimes called balanced although that has to do more with “ground” then stereo) you could connect it directly. The problem there is if that input doesn’t allow you to pan (L/R) each track individually, then you wind up with the BT panned hard left and the BT hard right. It’s possible to use software to fix this (Ableton allows you to select one channel from a stereo input and use it like a mono with panning).
Unless you are short of inputs on the Presonus, I would use a TRS y cable to split the two tracks into separate mono cables, then plug each one into it’s own mono input on the presonus.
That is by far the simplest way to accomplish what you want. If you don’t have enough inputs on the Presonus, you will need a “pre” mixer or simply an Input expansion (not sure if Presonus has adat, spdif expansions or not) or just another interface with more inputs.
Yes, you are absolutely right it would be better to have it separated and I will certainly have that too, but also wanted to merge similar sound needs from time to time.
I think you may want to do a bit more reading up as suggested … but if you do not need to have the flexibility (and added connections) of the elektron box then cables like this (or better) are really what you need to be looking for (so you’re forced to properly Mix)
Don’t forget some TRS ports are balanced and some are stereo unbalanced (like the ones on the AR) … the ports on your soundcard may be TRS compatible, but they’d almost certainly be balanced inputs in that case (also capable of adapting to unbalanced TR cables too)
Yes this baffled me for a while but I now run the individual outs to a mixer, then the mixer master back into the AR, and record into Ableton through OB. This also lets me run my other synths into the mixer and into AR then into the computer, making up for the well known volume issue of the AR input, no issues here. A mixer with send and returns also allows me to run a channel into my Moogerfooger etc which I often do to the AR individuals which sounds great.
What I’m wondering tho, is there a way to have the main go out into a mixer to be processed then back into the AR and into Ableton? (without it being doubled up with the main signal and processed signal through Overbridge?)
You can remove a voice from the main out and still have its fx come out the mains, but the individual out is always active, pre fx. You can certainly have a voice come out the individual and the main. Manual pg.6, pg.57.
Further clarification:
You don’t route a track to its individual out, it is always routed there, pre fx, and cannot be disabled. You can however disable routing to the mains, and if you wish leave the fx routed there. But routing to main does not disable individual out, so if routed to main is also routed to individual out at the same time…
Yes. You’ll have to scratch your head and chin a lot, but you should be able to do this.
Main Rytm outs to 2 channels on your presonus.
Send those 2 channels to an Aux. and then if your aux. can send, I think, post-EQ/fx, pre-fader signal, send that back in to the Rytm, and you should be able to send that one copy from the aux only, while turning it down in the mains for whatever you’re doin with those
…I think you can. I think you can.
My buddy’s crazy Midas board does it. My Soundcraft mtk does not. Presonus ai is sweet so it should be able to.
Thanks. It would seem I’d need a more advanced studio mixer then. I’m currently using an Allen and Heath Xone 43 Dj Mixer, it’s got a send and retun for fx but other than that it’s quite basic.
I’m waiting on my Soundcraft Signature 12 mixer to arrive and just wonder why Elektron designed the individual outs on the Rytm without the ability to have effects applied?
Did you look at the layout diagram at the front of the manual and ponder the implication of global send effects and how you get the signal to those send fx ? That’s the tap point for the AD conversion
How else could this arrangement have been made - there is no other scope for flexibility beyond what you can do now with a single global fx - i don’t quite see your point, sorry, maybe you can explain further
You can have individual tracks dry (many)
you can have mix wet (one)
you can have individual track wet (one)
what else is there to get from a single effects send block ?