Thread To Debate :
Why is it so uncommon to find Sinewave on Analog Device ? is it technical ? like impossible to achieve with analog component on board, i mean electronically ? There’s often on Analog modeling synthesis or Digital. But we only find Square, Saw, Triangle, Pulse etc… on ANALOG Synth
Advises for SUB-Bass on Analog Four, Analog Rytm and Octatrack ?
So how do you looking for your SUB Energies in the Low End, what’s your Tips and Tricks in that department
@finalform : i’m sorry but i know the theory, i know that a sinewave as only fondamental content with no harmonic. I just wondering why we not find it on Analog Synth. it’s also actually rare to find one with a Sub Oscilator with sinewave to choose on Analog Synth. You find it very common on Digital synth but not Analog One.
I wondering that because i always read the two things to get closer to the sinewave are :
Filter with self oscillation
Triangle waveform filtered
But it’s not an answer to this question it’s a workaround with analog synth to get something close.
Pure sine waves have little harmonic content other than the base note so they’re not very useful for subtractive synthesis. Sometimes they’re used for a sub oscillator.
I may be wrong, but I think that a perfect sine is not the easiest thing for an analog synth to make. I think that they contain overtones that need to be filtered out. But you can take the Tri wave and use the filter to cut away at it and come close though of course not a perfect sine.
I just got a Roland SH2 and it has a sine on OSC1 and it is nice to have. Trying to duplicate its sounds on the AK right now.
@subbz2k : you make two tutorial on this subject and you gives fine one for Sub and Punchy Bass (Started for Kick sounddesign to progressively get a kind of 808 Bass) and it’s working nice that way…
But it still not get me that answer.
So if you want a pure sinewave to double a Bass sound how do you do guys ?
You double A4 Bass with a Single Cycle waveform in OT, Sinewave Sample in OT and play it together ? like layering techniques ? Filter Self-oscillating technique ?
to get a true sin, pretty much requires a different osc design to that of the standard VCOs. Good sinusoidal oscillators used in analogue test equipment are pretty different from what’s found in most synth VCOs. I think they often use a feedback mechanism to maintain the balance of stability/pole position."
Thanks @TokyoDisco : That’s the kind technical answering i looking for… But still i would like to know if it’s costly, difficult etc… Seem strange to me…
There’s nothing to subtract from a pure sine wave so it doesn’t have a place in a classic subtractive synth. Also in analog it is technically rather hard to waveshape an oscillator into a pure sine. So why should manufacturers bother if it’s not needed?
It’s a different story with FM synthesis. A sine wave can be useful there because you can craft your harmonics more precisely without a filter. That’s why you always find it there or on complex synths that offer FM capability.
I agree on that but it’s the essence to get a sub-bass really dynamic… and Triangle is not the same results filtered. OK for self-oscillating @gbravetti that’s the only way to go on Analog Four for Sinewave so… or i will stick to sample for SINE or looking for a Digital with good Sinewave and solid bottom end.
Or FM as least with only the carrier and use it as a SUB-OSC
I don’t think it’s a cost issue as some synths that had them back in the day were not all so expensive (some were). But maybe they deem it useless for a subtractive synth as there is nothing to subtract from it.
it’s just (for me) really important for Electronic Music… i find that a bit contradictory to not find it on a Analog Synth (minimum as a sub-oscillator)
in a bit more detail: analog oscillators are always either triangle or sawtooth based and in order to derive more different wave forms they have to be wave shaped out of these basic forms. it is technically hard to derive a pure sine from these basic shapes, but they make sense and are easy to implement in classic synths, that’s why these basic wave shapes are used. A perfectly pure sine would demand a completely different core oscillator, as it says above.
Can’t you get very similar results with the tri wave? By filtering most of the high frequencies, you eliminate most of the harmonics and you end up with one, or maybe two in the lower frequencies. For high frequencies, the oscillators usually use resonators, but in low frequencies this is cost ineffective and ultimately not that stable. Also the inductors needed for low frequency phase shift or attenuation are large and expensive too. At least, that is what I remember from my electronic engineering degree
Hello @Silmae : i find that technique not bad at all, but still it’s not really pure. And it’s always better in the Low End when things are Pure, the effect produce by Sub PA is way better with a Sinewave rather than triangle filtered witch i find a bit “nasal” and not well rounded to give you a sketch talking about the Sine when it’s pure
Thanks for that interesting comment too
For high frequencies, the oscillators usually use resonators, but in low frequencies this is cost ineffective and ultimately not that stable. Also the inductors needed for low frequency phase shift or attenuation are large and expensive too.
Indeed my main usage of it is on bases to reenforce fundamental’s.
Also tunned at intervals on higher note sounds to give a pseudo chord feeling (i.e. +3 +4)
Anytime! But also, the sine LFO can be a CV output, and the oscillators can get a waveform from the input. I am not near my setup to test this, and it will not follow the note possibly… You can try and give us some feedback!
