I got a Digitakt after the song mode announcement. I’m pretty familiar with its differences with the Octatrack, and having had an OT and I deemed it too complicated for me right now … I jumped at getting a DT with song mode.
There’s a long story here but I’m gonna just get to the point - I tried putting a song I already recorded, and finished in Ableton, back into the Digitakt, with the verse and chorus vocals as long samples, and added a bunch of variation by splitting sections up into multiple patterns, trig conditions, and MIDI tracks controlling additional gear that I plan to bring on stage. It was successful, just, time-consuming. Successful in that I really enjoy performing with the song playing on the Digitakt and it sounds good and I’m going to record the updated parts back into Ableton. Time-consuming in that e.g. listening back to edits of 4-bar patterns can really eat up time. Also so much of it is just figuring out how to work around a limitation. (Maybe I’ll just get good at it??)
I was wondering if anyone else is doing something like this. Either on DT or OT (or M:S??? ). It feels like a good idea once the work is done, but maybe it’s also a very bad idea? Hard to put a quantity on things. I do just use stems when DT can’t sequence something, but, you know, 11min of sample time isn’t huge.
It would just be really cool if anyone else does their live stuff this way! (moving songs from DAW to Elektron gear not necessarily Digitakt) then I’d feel less unsure about things
Bit rude yeah? My question wasn’t whether to get yet another Elektron box… OT probably wouldn’t save that much time anyway because I prefer to have a lot of things be sequenced. It’s really more the general idea of putting finished songs back into Elektron gear. (I’m far from hitting the RAM limit on the test song btw.)
Yeah it was a bit blunt of a response but I don’t think it was wrong. Octatrack is more so designed for what you just did on the Digitakt. Taking stems and remixing them and shit. I don’t think I would ever bother to do what you did on the digitakt, it’s just not really designed for it. You can do it- sure, but it’s time consuming in a way that would frustrate me. I just view the digitakt as a synth that uses a sample as an oscillator.
Yeah, I suppose I should have made it more clear in my original post that I like to maintain original sequences / re-sequence tracks / sequence outboard gear a lot, so that I have direct control over sound. Which is why I said that OT probably wouldn’t be faster. Unless I made almost everything stems of course. Hmmm…
I think this is a really cool idea man, good on you for putting in the time/work to pursue it and see how it feels. I can only assume that the time/work factor will diminish as you get more into it and refine your approach.
Re: sampling limitations, have you tried the old “export it at 2x speed, pitch it down 2x on the sampler” trick? Probably lose some quality in that conversion but if the sampling time is really precious, could be an option to consider.
Another thought, since it sounds like you’re open to continuing to use your DAW for some stems if they’re really just too long or not worth converting to the DT — maybe it’s worth embracing that hybrid approach? DT is really good for drums and Control All tricks etc. etc. and your music is already ready to go in the DAW, so maybe you combine the magic of both to get where you want to go.
Not yet (and it might have crossed my mind early on) but you’re right that could be yet another trick should I ever approach the limit and it’s a pad or something that has no treble content anyway.
Yeah, I’ve thought about the hybrid approach… that would solve two problems, the time it takes to get things into the DT and the RAM limit, but it would also mean that I have to worry about a laptop. And you lose the ability to mute or otherwise tweak stuff that’s playing all in a central place, something I’ve come to value practicing this song. I guess I could rig up some kinda Overbridge template but then we need a MIDI controller (maybe?) to have that central control, or else really just have everything playing on the laptop be absolutely static. Oh and then there’s the question of extending sections impromptu, something you can do on Digitakt… and it’s REALLY fun…
I’ve already settled on 5 pieces … without a laptop … which, to me, is pushing it, and it’s kind of a minor feat that I was able to keep it that minimal based on what I want to do.
Still still … murrr … it might be worth trying out. It would be nice to freely screw with things playing on the DT without worry of sounding bad.
I wanna think that I can make this work with just the Digitakt … but I appreciate the suggestions too!
I’ve tried what you’re suggesting on the Digitakt, but found it frustrating due to the sample length limit as well as everything getting smushed in to mono. I still upload synth and drum stems from old songs and mess around with them, but those are getting treated like any other sample. For what you’re describing (re-imagining a finished arrangement with lots of moving parts) I stick with Ableton.
The main differentiating factor between the OT and DT, as far as I can tell, is that the OT shines at recording/remixing long form stems while the DT is tuned to being a drum machine that focuses on one shots, which is probably why you’re getting these responses, but do what works for you. I’ll also throw in a random ad hominem attack against the OT and say that it sucks as a MIDI sequencer.
Yeah, I recently made an album using DT and A4 + various other instruments. Arranged the songs in Ableton, and it sounds good. Now, when I want to go back to playing live it’s a real pain importing and using the eq-ed/compressed/enhanced fresh sounds, because I really enjoy tweaking and playing the DT live. Now the sounds can’t be tweaked the same way (for example drum hits have become beats, etc)
For me the real joy of these boxes is making the music on them, but by the time the music has been recorded in ableton, the magic is lost for me.
The mono thing and sample length limits haven’t become issues yet. Nobody is going to be able to hear a stereo reverb or chorus in a venue anyway.
Don’t forget, also, the OT doesn’t have overbridge or retrig (even though there’s no friggin MIDI retrig on DT!! wtf but I digress) and on DT sampling is so, so much more enjoyable. It is great being able to quickly bring a sound from any piece of gear into things.
And DT’s MIDI sequencer is solid. Don’t know how things are in that department on OT, been many years since I had mine.
I did this approach the last time I played a live set which was back pre-pandemic so no song mode or such like to guide me. I really enjoyed and I’ve been considering building up a new set but too many other projects on the go.
My approach may be slightly different in that I didn’t create too many samples from my existing songs - usually only a few things per song where the exact timbre or recording was essential. I think I probably ended up with maybe 5 or 6 samples per song. The rest of the songs were then recreated by reprogramming the rhythms and/or melodies in the DT or DN. The live bands that I enjoy the most are the ones where you can recognise the song but also sounds quite different at the same time. So, for me it was quite interesting that I was almost doing covers of my own songs in a curious kind of way.
Also, by taking the approach of reprogramming a lot of aspects of songs there is much more scope to tweak/jam/explore different structures. I also tend to have quite a flexible view on what my songs are - if the structure varies, or a melody is missed out, or I add a new melody in then I’m actually quite happy with that - so long as a core and recognisable aspect of the song remains.
I suppose that the flip side is that it can be a longer process to do, but I really enjoyed doing it so wasn’t really a chore and I felt my approach was more creative than exporting and arranging stems. If I remember correctly, I only got a couple of weeks notice before the gig and I manage to do all of that from scratch to come up with (and then rehearse) about 25 mins of music.
Exactly, same here … it doesn’t feel like a chore exactly… because there’s so room much creativity while you’re doing it. I ended up adding to my existing song, but I totally get the approach you speak of and moving forward I wonder if it wouldn’t be worthwhile to just look at things that way. I see a lot of my songs as unfinished / unpolished / in need of redoing anyway though… it’s like the DT is serving as a catalyst to try out new ideas, as all Elektron gear seems to do for me … except instead of recording what I do into the DAW I’m keeping it all on DT so that it can be performable without any laptop.
The main reason I’m concerned about time is that, and maybe this is silly … I do want to get back on the stage asap and I’m not getting any younger …
Knowing that somebody else did what I’m doing helps a lot. Like, knowing 0 people to now knowing 1, that’s an increase of infinity %. Phew!
I just remembered how I was whining to my house musician friend yesterday about how there’s no way to import MIDI files into an Elektron box …
But I just realized it should be pretty easy to record MIDI from a DAW into a track, saving a bunch of time replicating stuff. Might try that with the next song.
I’ve been doing this as well, “back-porting” older songs and idea’s into the DT.
I find the limitations (mono, sample length) not really problematic as I just take some of the stronger elements (like the drums or main melodies) of the old songs and create new things around it. Like remixing your own tracks.
And indeed record some of the MIDI parts into the DT and then play with the swing settings, envelopes, filters, etc.
And I didn’t use that many samples from the DAW project either, I think I transferred over a grand total of 4 - the vocals. Actually that was mostly because the song was originally developed on the DT. It’s weirdly fun, being clever in how to go about it. I just hope I’m not wasting my time >< Maybe it is a matter of loosening up, looking at it more like remix time, not being precious about the album cut.
Oh, yeah, my bad, you’re right. Don’t know how I thought it wasn’t there. It just does it with parameters instead of a menu. And looks like it’s the same as DT no MIDI retrig.
Another important aspect for me is that I never really think of songs as being “finished”… sure, I will get to a stage where a recording becomes a part of an album and it is essentially finished. But I’m never closed to the idea that it could be looked at again in the future for it to evolve into another iteration. And I think of that in relation to any music… like when you hear a really interesting cover version - to me, that’s just another iteration of the song.
Oh, and I’m in my mid-40s and do sometimes feel weird about the idea of playing live again. But if I do, it will just be about playing music and hopefully some people enjoy - I’m well past any youthful notions of rockstardom. Really the main thing limiting me is that I’ve got other projects that I’m prioritising just now.
). It feels like a good idea once the work is done, but maybe it’s also a very bad idea? Hard to put a quantity on things. I do just use stems when DT can’t sequence something, but, you know, 11min of sample time isn’t huge.
