I´m looking for a proper solution to connect my gear and having the ability to record channels individually into a DAW. There´s a big variety of options but more often than not there´s something to the unit that just breaks the deal. What already limits the choice for me is the fact that most devices have XLR/Mic inputs only on at least half of the available channels but I´m using line signals almost exclusively. Only 1 Mic to record something here and there but other than that it´s just samplers, drum machines, synths and DJ mixers.
So if I wanted to have everything to run through its own dedicated inputs I would already need 20+ channels (MPC Live already has 3 stereo outputs, 2 DJ mixers add another 4 channels so that alone already adds up to 10 channels) and I need at least one stereo input as an FX return for external effects if there is no dedicated input for it.
I´ve been looking into audio interfaces as well as digital mixers that can also be used as an audio interface. I don´t have the space to put a 24 or even 32 channel analog mixer anywhere on my desk or even anywhere in my studio so that is definitely not an option unfortunately.
So far the Presonus StudioLive Series III Rackmixers ticks most of the boxes on my checklist (I also started using Studio One along with Ableton). The 24 Channels version would mean replugging gear depending on the needs and also doesn´t leave any headroom if any new gear finds its way into the studio (we all know the drill). But the price jump to the 32 channel version feels a bit steep compared to the price difference between the 16 and 24 channel version.
So I´d like to ask you guys for some suggestions/recommendations as I can´t know all the gear out there. Basic outline of what I need:
-at least 24 channel inputs for line level signals (mostly 6,3mm Jack connectors)
-at least 6 outputs
-audiointerface / digital mixer with audio interface included
-preferably FX send/return for external effects (but not a must have if there are enough channels)
-good sound quality
-ease of use (meaning nothing that requires additional adapters/special cables etc.)
Budgetwise I would say 1K €/$ is max I can do.
Since NAMM 2020 is around the corner hopefully there will be something interesting coming out in this regard, anyone of you heard any rumours ?
Apologies if it’s stating the obvious, but if you don’t need to record all at_the_same_time and it’s more about being able to record multiple instruments without having to de-rig, re-rig, you could reduce the channel count requirements by considering a patchbay?
It is meant to being able to record everything at the same time, thanks for pointing that out since I forgot to mention that in the initial post.
I could go without recording both DJ mixers at the same time but the rest basically should be ready to go at any time since I move around a lot between gear and also have people over to jam once in a while so the less things to think about while getting in the zone, the better.
Thanks a lot for your input and effort!
The Zoom L-20R was also on my list and if I didn´t have that many stereo signals it would definitely have been an option. It´s obvious that most of the mixers/interfaces are aimed towards small bands that have a lot more use for the mic channels/pre-amps. Hopefully more manufacturers will at least install the combo sockets into their devices instead of the old either/or mindset so people like me with very special use cases have more options to choose from.
The MOTU interface unfortunately has special connectors and would require extra purchase which I wanted to avoid. Basically every audio interface I ever owned also had the S/PDIF connections but I never owned a single device that I could actually hook up to it.
Coincidentally I saw a used Presonus 32R for half price today with the regular return policy and immediately hit the buy button. If this is real (it just sounds to good to be true) then I´m all set. 32 inputs and 16 outputs with proper integration in Studio One sounds like it does all I need and more, has some headroom left and since I also work as a light & sound tech I can also use it to earn some money as well.
Soundcraft Signature 22 MTK might be what you’re looking for. My friend uses the 12 channel version and swears by it. 24 in/22 out soundcard built in on the MTK version:
I think the MOTU is only D-Sub connectors, but as you say it’s all something you need to pay out on.
It looks like you have a bargain, and it if helps you earn, then all the better - I’m sure people on the forum will appreciate a heads-up regarding how you get on with it - I don’t know if there’s already a thread for it in Other Gear.
for home studios you really enter a dangerous territory once you try to pass the 8 ins and outs that you get out of a modern rack-mount audio interface. do you really want to deal with gigs of wav files after a few sessions? you may find yourself desiring a new computer…
START with a patch bay. patch bays will always be useful regardless of how much I/O you can afford to have into your setup. you probably don’t need both your DJ mixers hooked up at the same time, and trying to entertain the hypothetical scenarios of what you could do with everything all plugged in at once just isn’t going to translate into finished tracks.
DAWs can get the job done when it comes to mixing and routing, but Ableton doesn’t do me any favours when it comes to track-doubling, tripling, or even quadrupling when I start to do more complex routing. This is why I am intending to get a patch bay myself.
but if you insist on obtaining lots of inputs, a Ferrofish (RME) pulse 16 is hard to beat. 16 ins and outs on TRS hookups, no preamps, and everything is then sent over ADAT. This allows you to basically just bolt on 16 ins and outs to any audio interface that can support that much I/O over ADAT. My Focusrite 8PreX could do this, and still have a SPDIF in and out to hook up another 2 channels from say a high-end preamp, a 500 series lunchbox, etc.
It does look nice ( I used to have an 8 channel Soundcraft analog mixer and was very happy with it) but like stated in the initial post it just takes away too much space that I just don´t have anymore. The DJ sets with the records take away so much of the space and there´s no way to reduce it any further. And I already sold hundreds of records…
@wriggy_b
The offer was a possible scam, it got cancelled almost immediately so I´m back at where I started. Too bad since this would have been an ideal setup for a good price.
@huuper
I already went down the 16 inputs soundcard and patchbay road and it just wasn´t for me. I already have a little birds nest of cables on my semi-modular synths and the patchbay just gave me an overdose of cable management that I just couldn´t stand anymore. The main problem for me is that most of my gear sends stereo signals and that is bloating the channel requirement unlike anything else. The MPC Live, Digitakt & Digitone (recording would obviously happen via Overbridge for these two but it doesn´t seem to be the most reliable solution at this point) and one DJ mixer already adds up to 12 channels and that is the basic setup, 14 channels if you add the external FX return. If it was just for me I would just replug whatever I need on top of that even though I find it annoying but like mentioned I often have people over to jam and after several sessions with daisy chaining the audio signal through devices and getting lost in how everything is hooked up after a while, this is not a setup to last or that leaves you with proper stems for post production. 1st world problems.
If the Zoom was on your short list, it might be worth checking if there’s an online manual and if you can stereo link the channels - i.e. combine 1&2, 3&4 etc into stereo channels, each with a single virtual “slider”
On my MOTU, it’s really easy to do that in the mixer app - it’s not a hardware thing.
Just in case you’ve not come across it before - the XLR sockets on mixing desks typically have a mic pre on the other end, it’s not always the case as @huuper mentioned - it might accept both mic and line level input, or even just line. XLR is just a balanced connector format - is more useful for longer cable runs, the connectors lock and I think they are more robust compared to TRS (jacks) connectors.
If you’re already cabled up it’s a much bigger consideration - cables cost soooo much! - but I thought I’d mention it as you’ve mentioned XLRs (as opposed to combi) as a sticking point, where it may not need to be.
If patchbays had previously put you off because of the cable nightmare, I’ve found these have proven a lot more tidy and cost effective: https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_sssnake_sk4215_snake_klinke.htm
I promise I don’t work for them!
In the short term this could allow you to reasonably cheaply hook things up before you splash a larger sum on a completely new audio interface.
They aren’t neutrik connectors, but I’m not constantly plugging and re-plugging - and on the front of the patchbay, most things are normalled to their most likely inputs in any case, so I only need to patch for lesser used options. Once again - apologies if you know all this already!
Usually every audio interface with a software mixer allows to combine two mono channels into one stereo channel but even if it didn´t that wouldn´t be too big of a deal, the main problem remains that there are “not enough” physical inputs (for my special use case).
Most mixers I have encountered so far had the XLR inputs for mic signals only and if the channel had both Mic/Line option it had a dedicated 6,3mm jack input for it or at least a switch. Have to check into the settings of the digital mixers if that´s something you can switch internally per channel. Devices with combo sockets definitely offer both options. But you´re right, I am already cabled up and my main concern is the amount of adapters and/or new cables I´d need to set everything up with XLR inputs. While it´s no problem for the DJ mixers since both already have XLR outputs for the master signal everything else is either Jack or even RCA (hello future purchase of at least one DI box).
I´m already using the sssnake cables you linked, coincidentally the exact same one as well as the smaller 4 cable version so the only thing that´s really missing is the “hub” to bring it all together. At this point I think I´d prefer the digital mixer version over an dedicated audio interface since it would also allow to work on ideas without having to boot up the computer first with a proper template in a DAW. At the moment I only have a two channel audio interface that is only meant as a temporary solution that I got super cheap since I already sold my old audio interface and patchbay to finance the solution of this problem.
I know very well what combo plugs are and what the difference between Mic and Line level is, I think you didn´t read carefully enough of what I´m looking for. I cross off devices from my list that have XLR ONLY inputs.
MOTU has some really nice audio interfaces.
I use a UltraLite Mk3 hybrid (USB2 and FireWire).
You could chain 2 of these by FireWire and have ultimately one USB port taken on your PC/Mac.
That would be 16 Analog INs plus spdif I/O plus 16 Analog OUTs plus spdif + Main + headphones.
These can be used Dawless and you can recal 16 different routings from computer OR hardware itself.
Stereo INsbcan of course be splitted
I have had good experience with the x32 range using synths rigged into the xlr inputs. I know you said you don’t want that and I know why now having read further down the thread.
To be honest, the best mixers I’ve used for similar use cases have been Allen heath mix wizards. They have great preamps, EQ, fair amount of channels and many auxes. Flexible routing and not huge. You’d have to get one second hand though for your budget. There are many models, and you’d go just fine with any of them.
Otherwise you have vintage Roland keyboard stereo mixers made for this. They are awesome but can introduce lots of noise and some crosstalk! Along with not crisp preamps, they are the most bang for buck regarding channels for synths.
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