yeah, I don’t really get the title of the thread. the sentiment of the post is good though. I think the idea that “these are instruments to be played and not push play and listen boxes” has merit. but I don’t think it has to be an either/or thing. and I don’t get the hating on song mode and programming details into the boxes. that’s why they’re great: you can do either extreme, or somewhere in-between. they’re flexible enough to cater to a wide field of approaches. and I’ve used various ones in my 20-ish years with them, depending upon how I’m employing them at any given time.
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Great way of putting it into words.
Octatrack is especially misunderstood in this regard.
It’s so close to being capable of DAW replacement tasks that people try to use it to replace their DAW.
The “click” comes when you stop doing that and just try to see what kinds of cool sounds and rhythms you can make with it - AKA - play/program it like an instrument.
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One small point… Did you learn to play piano (and music theory) while composing at the same time?
Learning how to play a piano by playing seminal timeless works like Mozart’s sonatas, Bach’s preludes, later playing Beethoven and romantics and so on, is a totally different thing than learning a DN playing blip-blop sounds, only later genius melodies. Maybe we should learn our instruments playing or covering the same great works? But one may say that those works are not written for an Elektron machine. True! But. Wasn’t for any other instrument but ppl are still playing them on guitars, trumpets, marimbas and with mallets; as do they playing Hendrix or The Beatles. But what if i don’t like Beethoven or Hendrix? OK, there must be some other genius living today (statistically speaking), composing and even making music with Elektrons, right? Someone that can help us learn our machines and show us the limits of creativity we should strive to. God, show me the way! 
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As someone who (re-)started my adventures in the amazing world of hardware with the Elektron boxes and then went on to buy an MPC, I thought I’d add my two cents.
First of all, I agree with most of the sentiment of your post. The Elektron “instruments” are indeed something very different from the traditional groovebox kind of machines like the MPCs, Machines, Circuits, Roland MCs etc. But I think it’s much more down to earth than the rather poetic expressions you use to describe it: the Elektron boxes were simple designed for a different audience of musicians who enjoy performing their songs live. All of their limitations start to make a lot more sense if you think of it that way. What do you like the most, writing music, or performing music?
It can be compared with storytelling vs writing a book. Some people are truly amazing storytellers, and every time they tell the same story, it ends up being a little different from the previous time. Their skill is in the art of “performing” their story live, in front of a real or imagined audience, and they get the energy from that setting. Others are truly amazing writers, and they enjoy perfecting one single version of a story until it’s a proof-read and printed book. Both of these types are amazing storytellers, but in very different ways.
Respectfully, I think there’s some cognitive dissonance that makes that hard for you to believe. The truth is probably that you’d easily prefer just pressing a button on the Digitakt if it allowed you to. But this isn’t the kind of thing that an Elektron box has been optimized for, because it’s mostly irrelevant to its intended target audience.
Elektron boxes were clearly made for live performances. They are just so totally optimized for it, with their conditional trigs that make things feel more dynamic and alive, and their amazing abilities to morph the sound across tracks in ways that simply can’t be reproduced in other boxes without a lot of work (try switching the filter decay on several drum sounds at once, live, on any other box). All of their crazy live modifications like Midi+twisting a knob on the DN are also musically guardrailed to sound great almost all the time, making these tricks very safe for a live performer to perform on the fly (compared to moving some random faders on an ARP Odyssey, the Elektron tricks are almost ridiculously safe to use live, and if you mess up, you just hit Func+No and you’re back in the safe zone again).
As an owner of the DT, the DN and more recently an MPC One, I’ve learned more about what’s important to me. Like someone else said above, with the DT/DN combo, I ended up with really amazing songs that were never “finished”. They’re like great stories that I need to tell in front of an audience, and I love all of them! But I’ve also learned that I really like to make songs that I can share with my friends, play to myself while driving the car, and the Elektron boxes just aren’t optimized for it. The MPC One, on the other hand, was almost custom-made for it.
To me, the MPC is some kind of sweet spot between “live” creativity in the moment, and the ability to get the job/song done. Unlike the DAW, it doesn’t take me squarely into the left-side-of-the-brain’s project management mode. Instead, I find myself exploring with my fingers on the pads and the knobs until I discover something that my ears like. I “perform” my songs on a simple 4 or 8 bar loop and discover what dynamics influence the song’s energy and emotions, and it’s almost as fluid as on the Elektron boxes. But, unlike the Digitone/Digitakt, once I perform something that I really enjoy, like a perfect transition between two patterns (sequences in the MPC lingo), I can just hit that red button and it will record all my spontaneous knob movements so I can play them back again and again. It’s a bit like being that storyteller, but with some sort of autopilot that can engage and replay my perfect performance that was maybe just a happy accident but turned out great. And it’s still far from the DAW environment where I spend time focusing on the slopes of automation lanes and other mathematical things that take me out of the creative zone. In the MPC, I use my ears instead.
That said, there is still this unique creative element to the Elektron boxes that the MPC can’t quite approach. Sure, it can come pretty far with its assignable q-knobs (something I really wish the Digitone had, btw!) and the fun Xyfx modes that can be applied to any and all tracks at once. But it’s just not quite at the level of the Elektron boxes. I’m tempted to keep all three of them because of this, and I particularly love the Digitone.
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Another crucial difference between an Elektron box like the Digitone/Digitakt is that they are clearly more limited in terms of the genres they are suitable for.
An MPC can be used to make virtually any kind of music, simply thanks to its less limited approach to song structure and nearly limitless pattern lengths, number of tracks, etc.
A Digitone, or even a Digitone and Digitakt combo, is clearly optimized for electronic music first and foremost. There’s a lot of variety within that genre, of course, but they’re not meant for any musician.
You could say that Elektron instruments are to a member of an electronic music band what an electric guitar is to the guitarist of a heavy metal band.
Wow! Woke up to read how lively this has become, and it is good to hear your Elektron experiences too. I am sure it will add thoughts to consider for someone new planning to enter the Elektron world. As in my OP, this is my personal experience into it, and it will differ for you - so read up more if you are thinking of going Elektron. There are too many lines to parse the prose (or poetry), so I just picked up a few here. Thank you for sharing your experiences!
I was using the piano as an illustration of a musical instrument. I am not using my Elektron boxes to write classical stuff, although I am sure one could.
Obviously you have reached nirvana with your Elektron skills, whilst I am still despondent in my despair for the lack of it. Nonetheless, I shall strive on with a few Tylenols here and there 
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My first Elektron experience was a Digitakt and I immediately took to the workflow, idiosyncracies & limitations. I ended up selling it because it didn’t necessarily fit my setup and financial reasons, but I’ll definitely get back into the Elektron ecosystem in the near future with either a Model:Cycles or Digitone.
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This 100%. For a live jam I would run Rytm through the OT in stereo and use its other 2 inputs for a 303 + 1 synth (I would currently pick a small modular case or DSI Evolver). The transition looper is a no brainer for this kind of small, mixer-less setup.
Having said that, I like many others also love the MPC workflow too, I just use it with a different approach. I can produce a finished track there knowing exactly what is going to happen and how it will be structured, plus I can do it unquanitised and in whatever track length/timing I want. With the Elektron boxes I don’t want that, a bit more like modular, lay down some patterns in the sequencer, add some ‘rules’ and then go to town on the controls!
I did try DAW for a bit but didn’t like making music on a computer/fidgeting about with keyboard & mouse. Had Ableton/Push 2 for a bit which was better, but I use a computer all day for work and wanted to get away from that for music.
Great post/read @othernet 
Looking forward to reading what others have to say
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This is so interesting.
My path was to realize that what gets me going is the idea that what is recorded in a song happened in some sense. While I don’t always tweak a playing sequence on Elektron, just the fact that it is possible and the fact that it is being generated, or was generated, in a “live bubble”, makes it feel authentic to me.
This is all due to the weird nagging feeling 've always had regarding DAW’s that it was all too artificial…I would sculpt and sculpt and sculpt and it came out too overwrought - a confusing mess. (To me.)
Now, I feel more at ease either recording Elektron-sequenced stuff, or the equivalent, arpeggiators and the like (though I don’t currently care for extremely limited sequencers like on Volca but who knows) or straight up living playing. I get that sense that something was not carefully woven to “sound” live, but actually happened in a real sense. And then I add finishing touches in the DAW and finally I’m making tracks that I’m happy with.
I keep thinking about another MPC (I tried the 1000 and liked many things about it, the limitations of 128MB, 32 voices, and two effects were interesting… I am just not sure if the in-between would work for me or if it would just frustrate me that it tries to be both but has to make concessions somehow.
In addition, the Pyramid crosses a gap for me by making up for the limitation of Elektron boxes when I don’t want to make the music that they clearly funnel you into. I plan out the part that will be recorded audio and eventually it goes into the DAW and the vocals and such get recorded. It’s inefficient on its face.
MPC seems to be the answer but I’ve heard some unattractive things about it … latency, pokey interface … so I admit I remain skeptical.
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It’s a very similar thing for me too. I enjoy the organic side of the performance with all of its imperfections that add to the overall emotions. A song I made in a DAW feels more synthetic in comparison.
There’s no doubt that the Elektron boxes offer a bit more in the organic department, and it’s a beautiful thing. What I find problematic for me personally is that I need to remember the performances that worked well, and when switching between three projects/songs that are all in development, it gets really tiresome to try to keep up with all the specific things I found worked well between transitions. I feel like a real artist that needs to remember to play all my songs as if I were on stage in front of an audience. Some people love that, but I find that it’s similar to trying to write a book without a pen and paper. As a result, I get stuck and the songs are never finished.
On the MPC, I sacrifice a little bit of that organic feel, but I retain the same abilities to “play” a song live and explore what works, and which elements of the song control my emotions, etc. The key difference is that I can perform the song once, and then it remembers how I played it. If I mess up in one part of it (in a way I don’t like), I can simply overdub that part. And crucially, three months later, I can still open that project file and don’t worry about completely forgetting how I organized everything because it’s right there, stored in memory. The only way of achieving that on a DT/DN would be to record the audio into a DAW, but that exposes new problems for me (such as, what if I want to change a sound later on, plus, being thrown into the DAW world again).
With all this said, the MPC workflow isn’t as instantaneous as the DT/DN. I love the Elektron shortcuts and with Akai could introduce similar ones. The touch screen doesn’t bother me, it’s far from using a DAW, plus, the whole machine is an instrument kind of device, not a computer. I start it and my brain switches into creativity mode, unlike switching on my laptop and being thrown into the world of email, slack messages and todo lists. The MPC is by no means perfect, but it’s in the sweet spot between creativity/fun and productivity.
Hope this helps. 
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Yes, strangely, even though I love my Elektron gear, I only do the simplest interactions with them when I’m not “jamming without intent”, and it’s usually only to try out stuff with the idea of doing a best-attempt recording (of just a small section), p-locking or using LFO’s, or drawing automation in a DAW! I don’t know if this is just me still in a beginner’s phase and that I need to commit to trying the oral storyteller style and that I’ll get hooked, or if I just like the instant and focused sketchpad that hardware provides and the fact that it was designed for heavy live tweaking will never matter that much to me.
And I started out putting a ton of my pressure on myself to do the live tweaking thing. It was so stressful. I think I saw the potential there, but the way it’s actually meant to be done is different from what I expected. Like I thought I’d have more freedom than it actually gives, I thought everything would work together but it’s actually more like if you use one feature it kind of blocks another one. You gotta feel it, or, let yourself become one with the box, I guess, hah. I don’t know. I don’t like knobs very much, I prefer sliders. But I guess that’s what external controllers are for, which might be the path I go for live tweaking. But that comes with its own questions and limitations. I find it a bit annoying that they haven’t “figured it out” already, like they have with traditional instruments, and that we all have to be like inventors. It’s the tower of babel and only a few are lucky and find clarity.
Sorry, I went on a tangent there. 
I guess it’s relevant, the downsides of performance. Coming from a DAW, like OP explained you have to chuck out all your expectations!
Believe me I do get wanting to just record a thing done the way you want and not waste time doing takes or trying and failing to be Dorian Concept. But on the other hand, anti-perfectionism might be liberating!
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I agree with you on this. I think that’s the “MPC” part of me that won’t fully go away and allow me to swim freely in the serendipity of the Elektron world. And that’s why I like ARM2’s Song Mode. I understand it can’t save every single knob twist of the DT, but it does give me a structure to follow along a few months later. It’s another reason why I bought the Bluebox too for recording my “performances” if I managed to catch a good set.
Trying to play an Elektron box live is definitely more complex, even with pattern saving, than just reading notes off a song sheet or memorizing the piano piece as there are more variables involved.
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This part of the discussion set me thinking, is anyone using one of the new MPCs (Live/One/X) to record MIDI from an OT? So, you jam something out on your Elektron boxes with a bunch of p-locks, scenes, tweaks etc but the MIDI is all flowing through the MPC, so if you hear something you like you can capture the MIDI instead of doing the same with audio.
Another way of turning live jams/cool patterns into finished songs?
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As soon as you realize you can’t scrub through a long audio clip or record long automation. That’s the end of seeing it as a DAW. I hate to say it but I see no point in supporting long audio clips if you can’t even go to any point in it to practice a part. If OT had a timeline, like the most basic one, but not row-based… DAW killer.
No point in supporting long audio clips really?
Regarding the OP while I agree on the “instrument” nature of Elektron, I don’t like this talk of sinking into despair. It only encourages the myth of how hard they are to use. At this point there’s a million videos out there that you can watch and see how they are used. The manuals are also publicly available even pre-purchase if you would rather go to the source. (Which you should)
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I mean really really long ones. Like entire backing tracks.
Sure there’s a point. If you want to use it to play backing tracks for example. Or if you want to do a sound installation with 10 hour long audio clips you can do that.
I just wanna say I know the despair of which OP speaks. Elektron has given me a fair share of bad head trips trying to reconcile the irreconcilable, but it’s not their fault, just my unwillingness to not be able to have my cake and eat it too.
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You are more than welcome to disagree with me, but I AM in despair that I do not yet have the skills to fully enjoy the boxes. That doesn’t mean I won’t be ecstatic when I do acquire the skills, as I have also said I just ordered an A4M2 and it’s winging its way to me as I write this.
I am very happy for you though - that you are wired at a level where you think it’s a myth these boxes are hard to understand. You’re indeed a very fortunate Elektronaut.
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Of course as with any skill there’s a learning curve and I’m not saying I’m any kind of master with them either. I remember the beginning was baby steps. Coming from an RS7000 background to OT as my first Elektron I was a bit shocked that I couldn’t just record MIDI notes into it and have them be repeated like I had played them, even when I had already read the manual and watched videos.
There are “quirks” like that which you have to know but the basic idea of the interface (well I only have OT and MD so can’t speak for all Elektron devices) makes the actual playing very intuitive IMO. 16 buttons to represent a sequence, “press button, turn knob”, it’s dead simple. What I think people struggle with most on OT is the relationship between banks, patterns and parts and likewise for other Elektrons that have “kits” they seem to be a frequent source of confusion. That’s nothing that reading the manual or watching a tutorial video can’t fix.
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