Force = ST + DT?
I had two of them in the equation.
Besides what is your workflow, you already have the gear you need-just spend more time, what are your goals or I usually finish my tracks in DAW type of replies, my take here is think in a way whether Force - ST = DT? That might help move the dilemma. Idea is not to let ST get in the way of overlap consideration. Touch screen, one fader, touch sensitive knobs, greater connectivity options and those small but playable/input pads would be something you give up from the Force.
The warp algorithm is so bad on the Force that i cant see how this would be useful. I do it the manual way by chopping the samples and using a drum program.
I revived this thread but my situation has changed cause I now own the DT too.
DT/ST/A4MK2/TD3/Force/Mac M1+Ableton Suite
That’s what I got now and I am figuring out how to make them work together correctly.
I first bought the Force for the reason you mentionned : going “DAWLess” but with a DAW-in-a-box anyway but I feel that will never be as good as Ableton. But I guess the Force isn’t only that and can be really interesting for other aspects (such as live performances but not only).
…apart from feeling like checking ur emails while on stage, there’s no real reason why not “playin live” with a computer…
performing all sorts of electronic music “live” got pretty relative these days…
and if u really wanna do so, u gotto to perform for real…only way to do this, is playing instruments without the need of constant closer glances at any menus for next orientation…
if u set up an ot, there’s no real need for menu diving…if so, u still got lack of muscle memory, don’t stick to basic rules u have to define upfront and did not prep it all in a smooth and smart way…apart from the fact, that there is no real live perfromance if u don’t rehearse…
What I liked with the idea of being “computerless” (for not saying DAWLess) was to not rely on something that can crashes (not saying an Elektron product will never crash ) but that wasnt a good reason…
Now, I know I can’t/don’t want to get rid of Ableton for production purposes (or to “release” my tracks) but I am not sure I wanna bring it with me on stage.
I really like to have my gear with me to be able to tweak the sounds and make the live “alive” () and make it evolve/change depend of the crowd reaction. I used to play some lives only with Ableton and an APC40 and I didn’t feel really alive as It was mostly only based on launching clips of loops I recorded in the studio… That’s what I want to avoid; I dont want the Force to only be a “clip launcher”
it would be useful if the algorithm was better, I keep reconsidering the force but then come to the same conclusion being that it’s so big, no tempo changes sans work arounds, and no warp marker tech, might as well stay with push until they bring it along a little further
I own a Force, a Digitakt an Octatrack and the Dirtywave M8. All samplers. My experience is that one is not better than the other. They are different of course. But the one I prefer is based on my preferences at the time. I switch often. Sometimes during one day I use two of them.
The Akai Force for me stands above all sound quality wise. But it also is the one with the most inconsistent workflow. The one hardest to get used to. Although I find my way, it frustrates me some time because obvious things are not alway done in an obvious way. On the other end of that spectrum stands the M8. Its workflow is frictionless and totally bug-free. Its user interface is transparent once the muscle memory kicks in. At that point it feels like magic. And the sound quality is really really good. I find it better than the Digitakt and certainly the Octatrack. The synths on the M8 are not really my cup of tea as they can sound pretty harsh which is good for Chiptune music, which I don’t like. The Force on the other hand has the most lush sounding synths I know. Even compared to a synth like the Waldorf Iridium. Yes really, I was testing them out together this week. The Iridium wins but not with a long shot.
The Digitakt I will never sell I always said. It is a joy to work work with. It too has an extremely efficient interface. Flying over those knobs while making music is pure joy. Sampling into the Digitakt is also very nice and efficient. The fact that it is mono does not bother me. What does bother me is sample memory limit and sample management. Both feel old fashioned to me. The M8 blows the DT out of the water on that front.
I think of selling my Octatrack. Have done that twice before. But now its final. The M8 has stolen my heart for good. The experience of making great sounding music anywhere on a frictionless bug-free device is pure magic.
I will never sell the Force. Playing lush synths on those 64 pads is awesome and its sound quality combined with its flexibility (it’s a true DAW) make it priceless.
The Digitakt, I don’t know. It’s a classic. I want to keep it. And it does what it does really well. But the M8 does that too with unlimited sample memory (disk streaming), better sound quality (IMHO) and a better interface (IMHO). I guess if you own a Syntakt the form factor of the other device is also important. That speaks to adding a Digitakt. You won’t be disappointed.
But selling a Force without the deep dive into it could mean regret down the line. You are facing a difficult decision. Good luck!
I think I agree with you regarding the fact it would be “stupid” to sell the Force before (deep) dive into it. (considering I find the time to dive into it of course )
As said earlier, I bought the Digitakt but didn’t sell (yet?) the Force.
And tbh that’s the first time I heard of the Dirtywave !
This has been my experience too, I haven’t sold the Force, and, each time I come back to it there’s always something I really like about it. In fact, there a lot of things on the Force I wish were on the Push 2… the Solo/Rec/Mute buttons and functions, the touchscreen mixer, and many more things it has.
But, ultimately, when I do use it I’m either at home or in my studio, and I just get to the point of thinking ‘why aren’t I just using Ableton here?’, and I usually switch back to Ableton.
With this scenario, I think you either make the Force or Ableton your main brain. And there’s nothing stopping you switching between the two as you want to.
For me personally, I never use my Force WITH Ableton, it’s always in place of.
That was my feeling after trying to be DAWless - Ableton is an amazing product and that’s not a great idea to get rid of it in my production process… But I still like the idea to be able to play live without a computer
I have never used Ableton, so that might be one of the reasons i like the Force. If i was using Ableton i would have alot of the same posibilities there. But would need external controllers though.
One of the things that made me chose the Force was its integration with Ableton. When I firstlly got it, the first thing I tried is to import Ableton projects on the Force and if these projects aren’t using “non stock plugins” that works pretty well…
Now that brought some workflow idea to me and I will have to give it a try :
Producing/Jamming on the Elektron Boxes
Getting further with Overbridge (Elektron boxes + Ableton)
Sampling what’s needed into loops and make a project only with them
Import the project to the Force
(that also brings one question : is it possible to connect simultaneously several Elektron boxes with Overbridge ? Can I plug my A4, my ST and DT and work with separated channels for all their tracks in Ableton ? (4 A4, 12 ST, 8 DT ?)
The Force crossfader was also one of the things that made chose it. (I firstly wanted an OT but I didn’t own any Elektron stuff yet and that jump looked too big for me)
But you’re right : my point was that would be stupid to keep the Force “only” to launch clips. That’s like a bazooka to kill a fly.
Yeah, i know. But for some reason ive never been comfortable with Ableton. So getting the Force gave me the stuff i like about clip launching, and i can focus on something different than the computer screen. I use Cubase as a multitrack recorder. So when a track is getting to the level that it is “finished”, i multitrack everything to Cubase, and fix what needs to be fixed there. And do an analog mixdown from there.
Dunno if anyone can answer this but as the latests firmware updates for the Digi boxes brought improvements about their USB soundcard and as I think they are “class compliant”; would it be possible to connect these through USB to the Force and be able to manage them as separated channels ?
) but that wasnt a good reason…
)