January Newletter just arrives. Let’s see if we get the machines in the summer.
2021 will be the year of the Osmose release, and we can’t wait to share it with you! We are now close to the goal…
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No that’s not really the argument at all.
My preorder was for 1100 odd euros. This was inclusive of vat. I have a residual balance remaining of 780 euros but due to Brexit circumstances I will be charged vat at the uk border.
My argument is that Expressive E should deduct the vat at their end. I pay me same amount, Expressive will effectively receive the same amount (no vat for them to pay to EU as a result of this).
Unfortunately that’s not how they want to operate so I’m having to fork out another 20% as a result if keeping the preorder.
Another way of looking at it: if they had come closer to hitting their original delivery targets I’d not be having to pay up another £200!
I’ve also got to wonder if UK border will calculate vat on the total value and not just the residual balance here. In that Scenario I am most definitely getting hit twice for some of the vat as vat was applied to the deposit.
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And 12 hours later … voila !
What, d’you think i’m psychic or something ?
EE is getting closer to being able to predict delivery but there is still a lot of uncertainty with their plans. Looks like for those planning their budgets, pencil in the closing payment for mid April — tax time if you’re in the US ! 
I do like this though:
An Osmose special new feature will be revealed to you in a future newsletter !
Of course we already knew there was a surprise on the way, back in November was it.
I’m still guessing it relates to the I2C interface, but maybe some software feature, or something else !! Thoughts ?
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If shipping to the UK, expressive e would not have to pay the VAT at their end anymore? Is that not how it works? Customer pays it directly to customs at the border.
So by not reducing the price (ie. removing the VAT at their end) expressive e will be pocketing the extra cash.
Happy to be schooled otherwise.
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one side benefits from Brexit the other doesn’t. That’s how no-deal Brexit works! (just kidding)
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That doesn’t appear at all reasonable. I’ll be emailing them tomorrow. If we decide to go ahead, do we get to claim the French VAT back?
Surely the fair thing to do is to reduce the outstanding balance to allow for the VAT at our end?
I know it’s how early bird/pre-orders work, but people like us have enabled Expressive E to have the working capital to R&D, prototype and manufacture this so it’s a bit shit to just essentially up the price agreed all that time ago.
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Agreed.
I won’t be making an immediate decision on whether to keep the preorder but it seems likely I’ll cancel on a matter of principle.
I know I’ll regret it a little if I cancel but it just grinds my gears having to put up an extra wad of cash even if not entirely in Expressive E’s control
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It seems absolutely fair that UK customers are treated like US customers.
It’s of no benefit to EE to pay VAT in France when it isn’t due for export product.
Seems this is just a communications thing hopefully, to be sorted out before the invoicing date to pre-order folks - otherwise final invoice will still have to show EU VAT to UK customers which will be easily disputed.
UNLESS … there is some weird logic that at the time of agreeing the purchase EU Vat only prevailed, and so no VAT due in the UK. In which case no UK import VAT … Any legal experts care to opine?
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Perhaps UK folks can just claim back the VAT paid in France by EE, particularly if you have a receipt for tax paid in the UK on import … like the booths you see in airports that have been around for years allowing you to claim back taxes on large tourist purchases…
Possibly but it’s more faffing about for me in that case.
It’s hard enough sending something to/from UK these days. Can you imagine the pain trying to get a couple hundred quid of vat back?!
This is the crux of it. They won’t be paying the vat on the final balance payments from the uk. It reads to me that they will be pocketing more cash.
Comms with EE have been excellent so I don’t want to point fingers or make wrongful claims. They’ve been helpful and told me how it is. In short, I’m paying a chunk more than expecting. I either lump it or pull out. No big deal either way!
I’m kind of with you Skip. Obviously, Expressive E were not in control of the UK leaving, nor are they in charge of tax laws, either EU or UK but they are in control of their final pricing AND Customer Service.
It’s a very good point made that they are seriously over their estimated time of completion. The global pandemic obviously has made it tough for all and it must be a nightmare to develope, build and launch a new product during one, but i hope that we can come to a happy compromise for both parties.
It doesn’t sound like EE are chiselling
In a sense I read it as the initial global pre-order price included EU VAT for EU customers, but didn’t include VAT for ex EU. ie US folks get the kb for the price paid and customer must sort out whatever extra is due on import. The UK customers are now in the same boat.
Seems the US customer experience (as expected and unchanged from the start) might now be the UK customer experience.
I may be wrong but it might be useful to look at this from EE’s perspective and thus make it easier to point out to them that they are mistaking some assumption.
Still valid to push it with EE if this is the only way of doing things… I’d expect there are quite a number of UK customers. And they should be valuing their customer experience as on the face of it this appears unfair if there are other options.
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They actually pretty much said as much to me in their message earlier today. Uk customers are now being treated as non EU customers. That’s factually correct of course but I still think what’s happened with regards to the pre order price is a misjudgement on EEs part.
Perhaps it needs a few of us Brits to point that out but their stance seemed pretty final to me.
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Solidarity Brother!
Not sure how many we are, but it’s got to be worth a try, ay?
I’d be upset to miss out on the Osmose but I don’t like paying tax TWICE!
A few reasonable emails, appealing to their kind natures may do the trick. You never know?
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It’s seems like a pretty shoddy way to treat customers who were willing to put their faith in a preorder.
Especially, as pointed out earlier, if it had been delivered on time, this would not have applied.
Not their fault that there have been delays.
It’s not the customer’s fault either.
If there is a strategy where neither party loses out, surely that is the path to take?
Will drop them an email too, but if that really is the case and they can’t offer a better explanation, it really leaves a bad taste, and I’m not that sure I want to do business with them.
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In a weird way, it kind of is the customer’s fault though by democratically choosing to fall out of the shared marketplace. I’m in the US and I absolutely felt like it was “our fault” when domestic synth manufacturers had to pay more for parts due to Trump’s tariffs and consequently increased prices. Just a consequence of a country’s political decisions. Sucks especially for those that didn’t support the decision but lost out.
I fully understand how it feels bad though.
While I can see your angle, it’s a little different. This isn’t just customs (2%) and a handling fee (£10 or so) as a result of Brexit. This is a company not reducing its pre order price for VAT/tax that will no longer be collected by them for a non EU sale.
Like with a US sale, EE now have no sales vat/tax to pay on these UK sales. It’s their decision and they have their reasoning but I don’t find it at all unreasonable for those in the UK to expect their vat inclusive pre order price from 14 months ago to be rebaselined to a vat free price. That way, everyone is kept happy with:
- EE taking in the same £s as before as now no sales vat/tax to pay by them to the authorities
- UK customer paying the right amount of vat as well as the customs/handling fee as a result of Brexit
- Authorities get the “right” amount
I could very well be missing something here. Perhaps in the EU something odd happens with pre orders for developmental/prototype work and things but I would imagine that is a tax issue and not directly linked to sales vat/tax.
US prices have historically looked lower due to the tax differential. In this Scenario it still looks lower because of that difference, but the difference effectively doubled!
Of course, none of this would have been an issue had Brexit not happened. But then none of this would have been an issue had EE met its original delivery target…
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Can we now continue talking about MPE maybe? France doesn’t hate Britains and they won’t rip you off. This reads like a schizophrenic vision from my end. They have to think about all of this themselves and will come to a solution eventuelly, I betcha, everybody will be comfortable with.
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What I’m writing about is the solution they have thought about though…