Is it possible that you paid VAT on the deposit amount and will then pay customs duties only on the amount of the second payment? That seems to make all parties whole, with all parties strictly paying and collecting their due according to the laws in force at the time the funds were transferred. Perhaps EE has the option to list only the amount of the second payment as the sale price on the customs declaration for buyers in the UK. For the rest of the world who didn’t undergo this odd change of governing laws, EE will list the full amount of the deposit + balance payment on the customs declaration.
If there’s a difference between the rate of the VAT and the rate of the customs duty, then that difference is simply your fortune or misfortune. For example, buyers who pay in a foreign currency are subject to similar luck depending on how exchange rates move between the time of the deposit and the time of the balance payment. It doesn’t amount to much.
I suppose it’s possible but it’s not how I understand it nor how EE have explained it. My final balance payment remains unchanged at 780 Euros. When the shipment hits the UK I will be charged VAT, a customs/import change and handling. Now, there may be some confusion over what value VAT will be applied to: 780 euros or the total value 1,080 Euros but in both scenarios the message from EE is that I will now be paying what is effectively an extra charge of somewhere in the region of 160-220 Euros depending on what is deemed the vatable value. This stance doesn’t sit well with what was agreed at time of preorder.
From what’s been explained to me and from my own investigation of what happens with imports, the only way I can see it working where UK based folks aren’t getting shafted is for EE to reduce the residual balance by c20%. ie. for EE to remove from their total at time of preorder what was added for VAT. I’m not just saying that from a self interest perspective. It should also ensure EE receives the right amount of cash too as there would be no VAT for them to pay over to the government on their side.
This part I agree with. I do not expect EE to have bent over as a result of Brexit customs fees and to offer a discount for this. I accepted that the Osmose would cost UK buyers an extra £60 or so for import fees as a result of Brexit and EE’s delivery delays. What’s actually transpired though is some kind of nightmare scenario I was hoping to avoid where my final cost is ballooning.
Anyway, I best leave it as is for now. Said my piece! Hopefully enough of us in the UK kick up a stink about it. It genuinely does feel like a substantial localised price hike for UK based customers though that could be avoided at no real loss to EE.
Dude, from what we read here in Germany your supermarkets are empty – there will be a solution. I’d rather thank Boris right now personally for everything. But there is a Brexit thread… let’s see what happens.
I get where you are coming from but it’s blinkered to have a thread about Osmose and to separate out what is becoming a bit of a mess with the delivery of the keyboard caused by its creators! It’s quite relevant to be highlighting this here though I’ll concede I’ve written quite a bit on the topic.
Still, it’s a far cry from the Behringer threads! And again, comms from EE have been pretty open and honest on the matter.
I wonder if EE can simply do a cancel and refund, while reserving you a time-limited slot to re-purchase and still be in the first batch. That simplifies things for the customer and puts all the bookkeeping on the company—which is appropriate—while all parties are made whole.
I dont think that would benefit anyone in the UK though. Same outcome as the preorder would still be held at 1080 Euros. That’s the, shall we say, irritating part here!
But, should they agree to a fresh preorder at, say, 870 euros (excl vat) then that would be agreeable
This is a good explainer, thanks for the detail! I’ve seen a lot of frustrated posts on Elektronauts about prices going up because of Brexit, but I didn’t catch that this situation was different. The company absolutely should not pocket the difference just because the point where VAT is paid changed.
@J0n35y nor anyone else, as far as i can see, are trying to politicise the issue.
This is simply a discussion regarding the thread title product and it’s cost to the UK pre-orderers.
It’s a reasonable topic of debate and one that is “on topic”
I’m not aware of anyone ranting and raving or making allegations towards entire countries. @J0n35y is relaying relevant and pertinent information that he has gained during his communication with Expressive E.
Bandying terms like “schizophrenic vision” are neither constructive nor helpful. I get that it doesn’t affect you and you’re bored of this particular line of conversation, but your simple, happy prognostication of the outcome doesn’t really stand up against the facts already attained from the company.
Anyhoo, i don’t want to start any argy-bargy but hope that the affected UK customers here can still communicate and we can move forward with a shared continuity.
I’m sure EE are trying thier best, and Id assume they are talking to thier accountant/tax adviser about what is possible - but I suspect like a lot of brexit there are details missing… there are many areas/industries where they are hoping that these ‘hiccups’ will be addressed.
I could imagine some odd technicalities, like the pre-order included a vat, and so orders vat-able… and that can only be changed by cancelling and resubmitting with new ex-vat order?
a simple question… were non-EU (e.g US) customers able to pre-order at a lower/ ex-vat price?
one thing Id check is…
if you are to pay vat to EE on the order, then you should get an invoice which includes vat,
can that then be presented for a vat-refund?
of course, lets remember EE is a small outfit, which is likely having difficult (economic) times anyway, so perhaps there is only so much that can be expected for a circumstance that was not within their control… so perhaps they are hoping the UK buyers will be able to get the refund themselves?
(I think jumping to conclusions like EE are trying to pocket the VAT difference are frankly premature and unfounded)
Thing is, preorder was including VAT.
Complement should not.
It must be in one of the grey areas of any Brexit pseudo-no-deal.
If you put yourself in EE shoes: they should pay a specialist to deal with this situation, plus now there are extra costs…
If you really want to play it by the rules, check the Terms and Conditions.
“The applicable prices are those indicated at the time of the confirmation of the order.”
Not sure you’ll have much choice but to cancel or accept the order once they are presenting the offer to you.
But if you have some time, read anything legal on their site and see how they are bound to anything towards you.
I suspect that’s what it will boil down to. I’ve made myself a little clearer on the Facebook page copying in Chris from EE who has been very approachable so far. Will see what he makes of it but I’m not expecting a change. EEs update was in response to prior comms and challenges after all.
Apologies for me replying to myself, i’m not sure how that happened?
Was actually trying to reply to @thetechnobear
Some very valid points made.
I’m all for giving Expressive E the benefit of the doubt.
I am guilty of jumping to a conclusion and will edit my previous post accordingly, but this is indeed a grey area that is causing much confusion.
Off topic but relevant to, i ordered and purchased £5k worth of windows from a Polish manufacturer back in September that were meant to be delivered at the end of October. Due to Covid, they have been massively delayed and will be delivered at the end of Feb. (obviously Post leave). I have paid a 50% deposit.
Long story short, the company are altering the second payment accordingly to account for the VAT & Customs, so i will be paying the same.
This, as far as i can see, is the logical and legally fair thing to do for both parties.
I’m still hopeful that when they think on this further they might realise what I perceive to be an error in their thinking. Or maybe not. Can always cancel and get my deposit back. And I presume I’ll get the full 300 euros back and not with vat deducted…
this is what I expect… and also the fact it was all ‘last minute’, so many details have not been thrashed out - understandable given other world events.
taxation can be complicated at the best of times, with lots of exceptions and also regional differences even within eu.
the pre-order amount may well have been ‘booked’ and in the 2020 (or 2019!) , so vat paid… so EE would have to pursue a refund for this… but that may not be possible because at that time, vat was payable.
having had to chase business vat refunds for other reasons - it can be frustrating and time-consuming process.
it feels different for the remaining amount, as you dont usually pay the vat until the payment is made by the customer… so that would be a separate invoice.
but perhaps there are other complications there…either in taxation (due to pre-order/contract) or EEs billing system.
I guess pushing for some kind of cancellation with a new pre-order discount code might work…
assuming, EE has the means to process one time discount codes.
(i.e. they cant afford to let this become a route for more discounted Osmose to be ordered)
of course, you have to wonder how many UK pre-orders there are… enough for ‘special’ treatment, too many to handle as ‘individual cases’
for sure, I thinks its really unfortunately on both sides of this fence
lol, yeah, Ive been watching too much star trek recently…
I think Im caught in some kind of temporal anamoly
your post is spot on… there are unfortunately quite a few ‘extrordinary’ cases created by brexit, some are just one-offs (caused by the change, timing etc) , some caused by buyers and sellers not knowing new rules - and some are areas which need ironing out/refining.
I think the frustration on both sides of the channel is caused by a lack of clarity which is inevitable after change … but I think give it a few months, and all will become a bit clearer on what we can expect ‘medium term’
for now, perhaps the mid-april Osmose date, can give a bit of breathing space for this to to be worked out for UK pre-orders.
Let’s leave it at this. It just went a bit too much into the direction of “they are ripping us off!!”. Everything else has been said. The deal alone is - with or without extra VAT - super nice if the product is as advertised imho.
