Going back to 16 Steps glitch?

Sorry if I am all over the forums at the moment, I love this machine but keep hitting hurdles that feel like they just SHOULDN’T be there on such an otherwise well thought out piece of hardware…

The latest is thus:

I can programme a pattern (with all tracks linked ) and then hold Function and the Scale Setup key to multiply this pattern out , this happens seamlessly between 16 and 32, 32 and 48 and 48 and 64 …BUT…then I hit the key again to go back to my original 16 beat pattern…it JUMPS…in other words, it doesn’t just go to the same step but in the newly selected bar, it resets to step one… WHYYYYYY !!!

This seems like the kind of thing you would rather it NOT do as it ruins the otherwise tight timing of an octatrack performance, I can’t for the life of me think why this would be the case.

help !!!

Nothing to be sorry of!

Yes, holding function and pressing scale setup takes you to the Pattern Scale menu where you can set (with arrows) the “denominator” to any of the options you mentioned. Skipping from 64 to 16 does indeed “reset” the bar playback to start at step 1.

However, I think that it isn´t necessarily an bug…

I think it´s depending on where the playback is within the bar as well as where trigs are placed, I managed to get “non-reset” going if I switched during up-beat (which maybe clue us in to that it were between trigs?). Switching from 64 to 16 appears to me more “error-prone”. But even going from 32 to 16 could reset to step 1. Could again get by it by switching in the up-beats though…

Not the same, but similar goes to turning the level knob. Somewhere within the bar(s) you´ll pass the playback position of where the sequencer currently is, which essentially means that you´re “trying” to put the playback position outside the aviable range (that you just tweaked). I don´t know how the OT would be supposed to do that without a glitch.

I´m not sure that the intention of scaling the pattern up/down is intended to be used that way you´re seems to be doing. Albeit, I admit that it´s an interesting way to see the options to be aviable… more than one (drum/percussion)track gives a lots of possible polyrhythms in liveplaying.

Thanks for confirming that it is not just my machine.

Can you think of a scenario where swapping directly with the “beat skip” would be of benefit? it is always interesting how one mans bug is another feature.

The reason I wanted to work this way is to create a basic element quickly for guiding my own timing, and then mutiply that out so I can add an odd embelishment here and there, before later in the set, contracting the pattern back in so there aren’t pages and pages to change…does that make sense?

Well anyway, thanks for letting me know.

By the way, just in case the Elektron folk are watching down on us,
I believe this could be done, just the ame as the “upscaling” works…
for instance, if on the 1 - 16 grid, the playback head is at bar 61, position 5 as you switch patterns, then the playhead continues to move with it’s fnext step being step 6 in bar 2 if that makes sense.

Well, I´m not sure if you could call it a benefit. Just noticed that I could avoid the “reset” procedure sometimes but not all times. Skipping/switching beat can be interesting, but disastrous when non-musical as you´ve found out.

I understand your point in setting the basic structure, and just expand the pattern scale to get the automatic copy of the basic structure to build upon in full pattern scale. I find it as an interesting way to use that setting, in a musical sense in liveperformance, which I haven´t thought of myself.

But I also think that contracting the pattern scale in this manner, is inevitably messing with the sequencer playback position. Which can be tricky to avoid since its position isn´t visible in the step sequencer LEDs in this menu (pattern scale).

Isn´t it possible to accomplish what you need with using different patterns instead?

I e, A01 (basic structure) with full pattern scale. Copy & paste to A02 and add whatever you need/want. Copy A02 & paste to A03, when adding more. In the end, when “contracting” go back to A01…?


By the way, just in case the Elektron folk are watching down on us,
I believe this could be done, just the ame as the “upscaling” works…
for instance, if on the 1 - 16 grid, the playback head is at bar 61, position 5 as you switch patterns, then the playhead continues to move with it’s fnext step being step 6 in bar 2 if that makes sense.[/quote]
I hear you… but… “upscaling” never goes “against” playback direction so it doesn´t have to take that into account. “Downscaling” on the other hand, have to take that into account.

This is not related to switching patterns per se (i e A01 to A02)?

And by the way, it is possible to file an support ticket to ask Elektron to have a look into this. It might be a bug, it might be unavoidable. I don´t know…

If you put the cursor in the right place in the scaling menu. the up and down keys can quickly go from 64 back to 16 steps… (sorry, cant remember exactly how… its more in my musle memory then my head) … if you do that within the first 16 steps of what-ever length bar you have… (and if you do it right, its only a few buttons… really doable)
you dont get a weird skip. but you have to do it in the first bar.

I think its function scale. left left… down down down… but like i said not sure

stupid mouse tripple-clicked and i double posted… sorry

Interesting thoughts here, thanks.

I can’t use patterns for a similar reason… the copy and paste function can’t be done in realtime without a gap as you switch to the blank pattern before completing the paste command.

I find it very interesting that even though this is billed as “THE live sampler”, there are clearly different definitions of “live” in a musical context, with many people choosing to pre-create their patterns in advance of a performance and save them in patterns slots then switch between them live.

I was hoping to use my OT totally live…as in …turn on the machine and have no trigs etc and then do all creation / effecting / copying / looping totally live and form a more or less blank canvas ( the only bit I allow myself in advance is creating the poo of samples from which I will assign tracks and decide in advance which machines I will be running on each track.

I think I will do a video of all the issues I am having for my own practice and bundle the whole lot with an explanation to Elektron just to see what happens…it might perk their interest.

Its definatly realtime… but you need more skill/ other techniques…
its very possible to start with “nothing” and build up your tracks.
but for that… you do need “realtime” instruments and things like pickup machines.
the other option, will be making extensive use of the transition trick. (which is more what i use) but it does require some preparation…
here is an example:
Track1 : setup as flex-track, linked to recordingslot 1
setup recorder-page1 with track2 as src3 mute src1 &src2 16 steps, TURN ON LOOPING
on the recorder-grid… put a one-shot trigger on step1 (thats NOT the playback grid)
track 2: do whatever you want

Scene A1 should mute track1 and unmute track2 (turn the level encoder completely left or right)
Scene B16 should be the reverse unmute track1 and mute track2
Now… when fader to left (scene A1 is active) u should hear track2… and hear what your doing… if you trigger the one shot… it should record track1.
now move fader to right (scene b16 will be active) and you should hear what you recorded… this be the time to change track2…
slowly move fader back to the left… and you should hear your new stuff
rinse and repeat.
instead of track2, you could use a mastertrack… and use track8 as a sampling source (which will be everything, except the master-fx … or main which is EVERYTHING
while tinkering… you can use CUE to hear what your doing on your headphones
when done propperly and you did not turn on that options that kills loop-playing at pattern-swap… your looped recording should keep on playing, even if you swap pattern. hence, you can go to “new pattern” with the recording playing
paste the old pattern… edit it… and fade in the new stuff :slight_smile:
But by all means, video everything you dont like… and send it to elektron.
I write them about nearly everything I dont like of the machine… but funny enough… the more tricks i learn… the less eager i get in writting them…

Wow, thank you so much for taking the time it no doubt took to write this all down.

your methodology sounds wonderful and I can kind of imagine it in my head (half the problem at the moment is not feeling lost in the button combinations).

I figure I will get this idea nailed this week and then next week start my next exploration…

I like your layout for the Scenes A1 and B16, I figure I can copy these scene setting to A2/3 and B15/14 but with different delay locks on the master track 8…if this works how I imagine it, I should be able ot do all you describe above as well as some cool beat repeating stuff, without having to go into the delay trig menu page. ( I like to keep things simple-ish )

thanks for all your help, I am once again stocked up on inspiration !!

Yes, you can copy scenes…

select the scene you want to copy… press scene A or B button… and press the copy button… (I think its the stop button… but could be play button… sorry, memory not 100%, i am old) … select new scene and press scene A or B and press paste (which the other stop/play button :slight_smile:

On the old elektron-users forum… there was a dude, who wrote an excellent piece
on how to record / manage scene’s … the chapter about scene-stacking… you will like

and to top the cake with a cherry:

in this topic, they describe a difrent way of being realtime and all that… but its an “advanced” technique… it uses difrent parts and free-running tracks… (comes with handy video though)

So allot of stuff to learn buddy…

Enjoy your machine… its allot of learning… but you get beautiful rewards…