Going pro

The Lounge
#43

What I find most interesting compared to others here is the “awful” non music stuff also sounds fun to me.

  • I get to learn how to make cool videos.
  • I get to mix and to master.
  • I get to think about getting exposure and solving those problems.
  • I get to play with not just music gear but cameras and mics and broadcasting software.

At (almost) 40, I want to get an internship at a TV studio. And a music studio. And a live music venue. I want to explore these creative outlets and meet and learn from all the amazing experts in their fields.

Fuck. I need to quit my job asap. So many cool things to explore instead of wasting away for corporate america.

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#44

If it’s interesting to you, great! However those are little to no interest to me and have little to do with music, so being a “pro” musician while spending most of your day with other tasks such as the ones you listed doesn’t sound like my dream of musicianship. I would rather go work for a media company, make good money and do music in my spare time. You might say there’s synergy, as you’re active pushing your music whenever your working but still, in reality you’re a media entrepreneur with a focus in music. And most will never make enough to hire other people to do the mundane work to focus solely on the music.

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#45

Please just don’t become yet another gear reviewer lol.

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#46

I think this exhortation to work the network, build a fanbase, it’s crazy. How can one focus on gaining the expertise to be a competent artist and spend 8 hrs a day grooming the social media world?

If being good isn’t good enough, I don’t know. UBI would be a boon for the arts, then everyone wouldn’t have to compete for the smallest crumbs from the giant network effect companies using your creativity to sell their ads. Init?!

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#47

Exactly, that is indeed a lot of fun as well :slight_smile:

Do it! Or well, first maybe work less and put as much time into music and videos etc. :grin:

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#48

The trick is to make sure that most time goes towards creating music and other creative stuff and the marketing, administration etc. Being a small part of it. That does take an initial time investment to learn about tooling to help you get there. Sometimes not as much fun, but for me it is paying off and that’s wonderful to me.

#49

I thought you said you were doing mixing, engineering and teaching as well? Those all generate income and are not the same as being a musician. Like, if you’re going to have multiple streams for generating income with being a youtuber a small part of it, we’re simply not talking about the same thing here.

#50

Correct. I’m building up to making sure I can go full time so I can spend even more time on creating music. That is indeed a time investment. I’m still going to play a brand new 2 hour live set the 26th of June in a club. Teaching is about 4 to 5 hours a week. With a maximum of 6 or 7. Mixing is for now once a month or so. And all these activities i really like.

The dream of being a full time musician is, well a dream. You need to either support yourself through session work, teaching etc. There is no way around that.

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#51

I think we are talking about different things here to some degree, which is okay. OP stated they wanted to “live from their art”, which includes their interest in releasing music, starting a radio show, doing some editing, and performing live.

I’d also argue that I’m not trying to be a “professional musician” and that I am actually seeking to be a “professional creative”. Actually. I don’t even care if I am a “professional” creative. I’m quite happy with just being a creative and dedicating my non-family time to just that. Getting money from it sounds nice too.

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#52

Wow!

Ok I though my email was borked this morning when I got al these notification.

Alright there is a book to be written with all that wisdom in here.

Thanks for everything, and yes, I agree with a lot of what is coming up.

I see that a lot of giging musician ends up being ‘entertainer’, I Dj in the past at different venues and realized that I am not an entertainer. I am happy to share what I do, but boy I’m not into feeding the public what they want to hear. So the ‘covers’ and entertainment in bar and restaurant doesn’t resonate well.

It really resonate with me the idea of creating art for the ‘market’ or creating art for oneself. I know I could take on the ‘market’ route, listen to what is trendy, buy the samples/loop needed, and create something decent enough to move some cash. My analytic / troubleshooting / strategy brain could definitely get me there. But it’s not what I want to go toward. At the same time, I feel I might not have the potential to only create music that would be so innovative, viral and different that I could become a recognized artist and make a living from it.

This is why I like the idea of multiple prong approach, from writing, to illustration (animation) and music. I really enjoy movie music lately and see how that can also be an avenue. I am also understanding that the paycheck will probably be a lot less once the move is complete, which I am fine with. The plan is to make sure I can raise my daughter in a comfortable situation, but once she can work for herself, becoming a bit more selfish about how I spend my days :smiley: Which would be around when I turn 50!

I really like the idea of taking the this to publish about this journey. Something that would keep me in check and also a good way to motivate me to write more. I already write for the local newspaper in a monthly column and reflect on a weekly basis, so I think writing more about my process could be… well… entertaining to a certain degree. This is something that I am trying to plan, what are these activities that will get me there. I practice daily tabla and flute, I play on my gear 3 to 4 times a week, I take music lesson weekly… Having a radio show and weekly blog/article would be two other layers to help the process…

I hear you too about working a shitload and then retiring so you can do what you really want to do. But I feel that a lot of people die trying, or when they finally are able to retired they are fried beyond repair. I was raised with this idea that Art is what you do in the evening and in the weekend, but I come to realize that if I would do that all my life I wouldn’t end up really experiencing art and creativity to it’s fullest.

A friend painter of mine describe how it takes him a couple week to come out of his daily work habit to be able to move into his creative self. And his work is teaching art to school children. Now I am not saying that it’s like that for everyone, but there is something about committing fully into a creative process. I know for myself when I take a creative retreat where the only goal is to draw/write/make music, so much comes our of me.

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#53

Yeah, we’re talking about two different things IMO. I was more talking of the downsides of being a streamer, meaning someone like Andrew Huang or specifically the less succesful Andrew Huang YouTube is full of. If you enjoy the grind, go for it and never look back! However music seems to take the back seat and money is made from hawking gear, sponsorships and pandering to your fanbase (LIKE & SUBSCRIBE! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT $5 DONATION!) as opposed to actual creative endeavours.

And honestly there’s nothing wrong with being a YouTuber, you’re self employed and work in media. That’s as good a career as any, and I know a lot of people are happier when they only have themselves to answer to. However that career path does mean you’re going to struggle financially unless you’re willing to put some real effort into the more mundane aspects, it’s no different than running any company in that regard. So quite different from being a musician or artist, where you make your living from playing music or making art.

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#54

But that’s such a distant concept though. I know a lot of musicians and the only ones actually making a living with their art can do so because they are doing session work. A lot. And that’s not always that much fun either. Making a living 100% of your own created music is incredibly hard to do and comes with a heap of downsides and stress as well. I’ve seen people actually losing their love for their craft because the stress of having uncertainty of pay checks or music selling well, gigs, etc. Especially now where music is worth almost nothing and the fee for gigs is at an all time low if you get paid at all really…

And on top of that a lot of them have to do their own managing and promo stuff u til they have a big enough name that an artist agency actually wants to work with them.

It’s not all roses by any means either way. Not saying it’s impossible either by the way.

Personally I actually am super happy i can create whatever I want without any stress of having to reach a big enough audience that needs to buy my music for me to be able to survive

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#55

Yeah for sure, it’s no fun. Being a musician is a hard way of life, no doubt about it. However there are other ways to make a living by making original music, like making music for TV, movies, theater or other media (video games?). Does that make making music a side job to finance your own creative ambitions? Maybe, seems like whatever you do you should always have a day job.

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#56

True. And is that the music you want to be making? That also takes away from your own creative endeavours.

#57

Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t? As I said, it kind of does make making music a side job, but I also think a professional composer / musician should really be abled to make the kind of music they want regardless of their employer, in the case of movie or TV music at least. Just as we often make music based on a theme or an abstract idea, a professional should be abled to work within a framework dictated by someone else and make it their own. That’s one of the differences between an amateur and a professional.

That said if you don’t have what it takes to compose music for others, then that avenue isn’t probably for you. It certainly would not be for me!

For example I do think Geoff Barrow is a brilliant musician, precisely because he makes great music solo, in a group and as a composer for hire. He’s just an all around musician in that regard.

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#58

Interesting thread. Look forward to reading it later, but thought I’d chime in. I took a step toward this very thing almost a year ago.

Here’s a book that may be of interest: Pressfield’s Turning Pro. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i70GnS75n1E

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#59

@ponnuru -
I’m happy for you to have a goal.
I started a YT channel some months back, and my brother asked me where I’m going with it, and I still don’t know how to answer. But I enjoy playing music learning the tech, and making videos when I can.

8 years does sound like a long time when you can get a pizza in 30 minutes. But, you’re also giving yourself a lot of wiggle room. What one thing can you accomplish by June 16th, 2022 that will bring you closer to quitting the consulting racket by the time you hit 50?

Last thought - as a businessman, you’re thinking:
“I won’t do IG, YT or Patreon because it’s done to death.”
“It’s saturated.”
“Be #1, #2, or get out.”
“I’ll never get as many views as Loopop or RedMeansRecording, or Cuckoo, or Ricky Tinez…”

You’re not in the boardroom anymore, hermano.
True, there’s a lot of competition for eyes and ears.
But, happiness does not exist in the world in a fixed amount.

I recommend this book, The Practice, by Seth Godin. It’s a light read, and it made a valuable impact on me. It’s basically a lot of sensible arguments to continue at your creative pursuits.

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#60

This thread is reminding me of local legend jazz guitarist Eddie Roberts (of the Mastersounds). How he was nagged and told over and over to quit, almost became a plumber (I am told?!) and then one day Fuji TV / Afternoon Live Goody start using his The Whistle Song and he’s financially stable.

Money can come from the weirdest places I guess…

#61

I’m not pro, but I’ve had a really lovely amount of attention on my music that I didn’t expect. Here’s what I’ll say about it:

I’ve made music for all my teenaged years and my adult life. I spent my 20s playing a million live shows and pushing hard to be a “musician”.

Then I went and got a degree and a job I love outside of music, and that was the best decision I ever made for my music. I’m not tired and stressed and broke all the time, I make the music I want to make, and music is the reward and never feels like work. Because of all this, I’m more musically productive than I’ve ever been, as well.

I make music because I love to make music. I started making videos of this live performance / table-top process thing because those were the videos I like watching, and because it was an interesting way to challenge myself. I had no intentions with the creations of the videos; when my first video got 25 plays I was floored and excited. When it was in the thousands, it just seemed absurd (but also lovely and so amazing). I never made music to satisfy anyone else’s ears, and avoided making videos for anyone else’s benefit. It means that every time I go to the table, I am excited to make the music I want to make. I’d like to think that comes through in the music itself, but who knows.

When the music stuff started taking off (by my standards, anyway), it was a really pleasant surprise. YouTube monetization isn’t much, but it’s a nice bonus; ditto sales on Bandcamp. I decided to start a Patreon, and while that is definitely the largest revenue source from music, the real benefit of it is creating a supportive and inspiring community of individuals to talk to everyday. I’m not nearly making enough off music for it to be my living, but it’s still a small amount of regular income every month, which I had never expected.

All this to say, I’m not sure you need to “go pro” unless it’s specifically because you hate all other work. I’m delighted and grateful that people are listening to my music, and this is orders of magnitude more success than I’ve ever had as a musician. I’m also doing it at the most positive stage of my non-musical career, and I love my job. If I had to choose between living off music, or continuing how things currently are, I’d choose the latter.

Best of luck! There’s always space out there for more great music.

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#62

Timely

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