How is digitone better than FM4 ipad if I already have DTakt

[kodiakkodiak]

So I recently got my first elektron devices - Digitone and Digitakt. I LOVE them both. actually very easy to figure out with the help of Cuckoo and a couple other youtubes.

Still on my first week - but I just plugged my ipad into my digitakt midi and am sequencing FM4 and other ios synths with the DTakt and routed the ipad audio line out into DigiTakt input - monitor on. works great!

SO my question is - why do i need the digitone? Dont get me wrong, it sounds great. And i get theres a bit more i can do with pLocks but sure seems like 90% of the Digitone functionality can be done with the Digitakt and Ipad.

Am I missing something? Im still new to the DigiTone and havent begun really shaping my own sounds. though I can do that with FM4 too. maybe there are limits i havent found yet.

Im on a budget so always trying to do as much with less as possible.

side note - i use yamaha 5pin din midi bluetooth adapter from the DT to wirelessly transmit to Ipad and it works beautifully. Less cables!

[craig]

In short, no one NEEDS a Digitone. If you find it quicker, easier and cheaper to use FM4 instead, go for it! But to help solidly the decision, spend some time with both options before selling the Digitone. Maybe it’ll surprise you later on

[nilsec]

FM4

Can you use the FM4 a drum machine? How about and external audio Processor? Does FM4 have a sequencer? How are you sequencing chords on the Digitakt? Whats the Filter like on the FM4? Does it have effects?

Hell, why even bother with the Digitakt. Sell that too and use the the Sampler in GarageBand for iPad. Boom stereo samples!

… not to sound hostile, but maybe learn everything about the Digitone first, and then make an informed decision. No one NEED a Digitone and no one NEEDS a Digitakt.

[kodiakkodiak]

OKOK a little harsh! ha/ lol
Can you use the FM4 a drum machine? the digitakt is my drum machine
How about and external audio Processor? the digitakt is an external audio processor
Does FM4 have a sequencer? the digitakt is a sequencer
How are you sequencing chords on the Digitakt? the digitakt sequences polyphonic midi
Whats the Filter like on the FM4? not bad
Does it have effects? not sure, but running through DT input allows effects through the DT

I bought both new- so have 30 days to return for a full refund on amazon is why I’m asking.

Understand that no one needs any musical gear at all. Trying to put together a streamlined dawless system. I AM going to keep at the digitone. Its a little easier to use. And hopefully something I havent discovered in the workflow will appear. Im really just so impressed with the 8 samples and 8 midi tracks available on the DT. When I add 4 and 4 more tracks from the digitone it seems like overkill. like maybe both arent neccesary (to acheive the same results) if you have one.

but thanks for your reply!

[Lieder]

Personally, I actually did need a Digitone
I have always loved FM sounds ever since I would play Ecco the Dolphin on Sega Genesis (amazing sound design in that beautiful game).
I owned a Yamaha Tx81z and dived into FM with gusto…but the interface really sucked.
The Digitone is easy, quick and absolutely fun and offers everything my Tx81z did and so much more.
If you love, or even just like FM as a friend, you need it.

[jefones]

Does it have effects? not sure, but running through DT input allows effects through the DT

The digitakt effects do not get applied to the digitakt inputs.

[BelovedAunt]

Assuming these aren’t the last pieces of hardware you will ever own and that you’re going to continue exploring, you might find that the DN pairs beautifully with some other piece of hardware in ways you hadn’t anticipated and that your DT is actually the unit that is redundant in this particular configuration.

I don’t regard either unit (DT/DN) as standalone units, and to be fair, there is a lot of crossover in functionality. If these are the only two pieces of gear you will ever own and money is an issue, no, you don’t need a DN.

I would take some time to really explore both units. Worst case scenario, the used market could definitely use a DN.

[Suspect_Frequency]

I have a number of different pieces of gear, including a DT and DN Keys, I also use an iPad with various apps sync’d up, among others.
I could lay out solid arguments against every one of them as a reason not to keep it. But my opinions, or others opinions, will never really help you.
The decision is simple, and it sounds like you are just looking for someone to say ‘no, you don’t need the DN because the iPad is just as good’.
So I say, no - you don’t need the DN because the iPad is just as good.
That would be false though, because an iPad with app is not at all the same as a DN. For instance, you say you have the iPad synced up and running through the DK, but have neglected to say how it’s routed. Obviously, the iPad does not have midi in/out/thru ports or audio in’s and out built into the physical hardware.
The iPad also doesn’t have physical knobs for performing and programming - easy fix, add a midi controller to the iPad.
Alternatively, the DN doesn’t have a multi-touch color screen and ability to load other software.
These arguments could go on all day but no one besides you can know what is important to you, and I am personally not emotionally invested in any piece of gear to the point to try and convince you to keep or sell.
For me, I’m keeping my DN Keys because it’s workflow, ease of programming and tweaking can’t be replicated on the iPad, even when hooked up to my 88 key midi controller which has 8 continuous knobs and 8 faders which can all be midi mapped with certain iPad apps. It just isn’t the same because it’s different.
Good luck with your decision.

[hausland]

Let me pitch in. Not sure why your question is met with seemingly such intensity, but I’m sure all of the comments mean well, this is a helpful and friendly place

I hear you re the Digitakt, the thing is awesome. I also run the digitakt midi out into a iConnectivity Audio 4+ that’s hooked up to my iPad. Then I use a few of the DT’s midi tracks to sequence synths on the iPad (+ midi map them so i have hands on control over them…btw also mainly FM synths as I have a bunch gear for everything else :)) and I set up two other DT midi tracks to control effects on the iPad. I use AUM or ApeMatrix to route it all inside the iPad. It’s a cool setup and fun!

And yet, I’m thinking about getting a Digitone down the line for a few simple reasons:

1. Instant on: Just flip a switch on the back of the device and it’s good to go. With the iPad I also watch netflix, surf the web and buy more audio apps than I can every use lol. So setting things up just FEELS a little more involved and just creates enough of a barrier for me to sometimes find something else to use when I’m just the slightest bit hesitant to go through a setup moment. With my DT, OT and A4, I turn them on and off I go.

2. Hands-on controls: The Digitone’s UI is matched to its functions & capabilities, and it’s a joy to use. I really dig hands-on control that I don’t have to map out first. I went through TONS of midi controllers in the past, trying to make VSTs work for me, but it never quite did - I realised that when I bought my Digitakt :). The other benefit of a “fixed UI” is that you can build muscle memory and become good at playing it. I think of these boxes as instruments just like my guitar is an instrument. If I would have the option to move things around on the fretboard every time I use it, I’d probably never learn to use it

3. Limited functionality: similar to point 1 & 2 but still worth a mention: the fact that a Digitone (or Digitakr) exists for a dedicated purpose and their functionalities are limited to me is a good thing. It just helps carve out a meaningful spot for it in my setup and compositions and to have clearly in the back of my mind what I can and can’t expect of a device. These limitations force/enable my creativity which is nice.

4. Sound quality - the Digitone sounds great and is designed to sound great I have plenty of FM synths on ipad and as VSTs, but still. Maybe it’s a placebo effect or the converters lol, but I dig the Digitone’s sound.

5. Sequencer & Sound Module integration - this is the killer argument for any Elektron box. Given that you’ve worked out a way for yourself to use your DT in a manner where it seems to flow nicely, maybe not that important a point in your case.

Hope this helps your reflection & decision!

[nilsec]

This just feels a bit like a troll post. People buy and use Elektron boxes because of workflow and community. The Digitone and Digitakt are going to have similar workflows.

A vst is going to have a different workflow. If you just want one box and slave a bunch of midi things to to it, I feel like you answered your own question.

I love the Digitone. It’s an endless source of sample fodder, a drum synth(not just a drum machine) the digital filter algo on it is amazing. It’s sounds warm but cold at the same time. If you look at the way the Digitone “voice architecture” is set up it’s actually a pretty standard “East coast subtractive synth” the primary difference is instead of a VCO or DCO that outputs some standard waves, it’s an FM complex oscillator. Its my understanding that FM4 doesn’t do this and just models FM hardware synths from the 80s (Which did not have digital filters) so that means that FM4 is effectively the oscillator section of the Digitone. (FM4 has microtuning, which is awesome but I’m not sure how you’d leverage that from the digitakt)

Soundwise, it’s apples to oranges. But you have both the app and the Digitone and would have known that

The Digitone is unique, both in sound and architecture.

[kodiakkodiak]

Certain irony in mentioning the great elektron community as a justification for being harsh to anyone who questions the perfection of an elektron device.

I’m not a gear head and I dont have endless resources so couldnt afford to be if I wanted. I know many of the people have tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment. I have doubts about whether thats really about making music or geeking out on gear, but to each their own.

My background is in string instruments and want a way to finish tracks using tools that feel like instruments. The digitakt is exactly that. And the Digitone is exactly that. Both excellent instruments.

I realize that my OP said do I “need a Digitone if I have Digitakt” and I realize that it was making assumptions that anyone would understand what I mean by ‘need’. I meant ‘do I need it to achieve the results I want.’ Which I didnt explain.

I want a set up that allows me to sample, sequence, and lay drums, bass, and synth tracks. I will add vocals and guitar live and or record.

I have never needed 8 tracks for drums. Usually good with 4. So the DT checks off almost all of my boxes. The DN is very nice, but its primary functions are Sequencer, 4track FM synth, and a filter/fx.

As far as multitrack (multitibral?) FM synths go, the DN is clearly in a league of its own. I was searching for alternative synths of any kind that have 4 or more independant tracks and are in the same price range and came up with very very little. (OP1/Z, organelle, blofeld, virus, circuit, mc101… are there others?) None of those seem to really hold a flame to the DN.

Also the DN filter and fx on inputs are very nice - I didnt realize the DT didnt do this (which is weird tbh). It should!

The Sequencer on the DN is a little bit of overkill for me since i have the DT. I can guarantee you I will NEVER use 24 tracks. It does work pretty nice to have the synths on the DN sequencer and the drums/samples on the DT an sync them up. But its also a little awkward file management. Making sure I title projects on both machines and save, etc. On the otherhand if I use the Midi tracks on the DT to sequence external synths (on the DN or other) Everything is one place, which is kind of nice too.

So my thinking for a more compact all in one set up was to use my yamaha bluetooth midi adapters in the DT (these are amazing btw). and use them to control my ipad mini 5 synths and route the audio into DT. I have some really awesome soundin synths on the ipad, but hate the AUM set up. I dont mind having ipad synths though - for me, they dont feel like vst daw. theres no knobs, but using them still feels more like a stand alone instrument (to me).

I also have to admit that I dont fully understand FM sound sculpting and am only medium interested in it. Im more of a twist knobs until I find something cool sounding and save it sort. Very unlikely I could repeat any sound ive made from scratch if i had too. That said, the DN is very friendly to tinkering around. With virtual instruments I find myself relying much more on presets probably just because of the lack of things to turn.

Surprisingly, there arent many multitimbral ipad options either. Gadget does it, but I hate the UI, theres one called layr or something i havent tried. it sounds like it has the multitrack, but im skeptical about the sounds.

I havent mentioned it yet, but portability would be nice too. One elektron device is managably portable in a case with a battery and adapter. Throwing an ipad mini in there too is easy. can even keep it all hooked up. I have a portable tallboy bluetooth speaker too. pack all that together and i can jam in the park or at a friend’s all afternoon. Two elektrons is too much to easily call ‘portable’

So Ive done my own research and searching and am surprised that there arent really any perfect replacements for the DN. Ive decided that Im going to keep it and spend sometime with it. I totally get the allure of obsessing over gear! Its like any single choice is almost perfect for something, but not quite complete. There are so many strange holes in functionality, but maybe thats the point. I am loving these devices. I wish they took batteries. I wish patternchains could be saved with project. I wish the DT put effects on inputs. I wish there was an undo button!

but these are relatively minor/have work arounds. ok save patternchange is like wtf why isnt this in here? Oh this is really minor but if the DN had an internal oscilloscope like the virtual one on the elektron DN website. I would have never even questioned keeping it. I know that is totally pointless, but its just one of those staring into the flames touches for me. So I wish they had a view waveform screen for sound making.

Thanks for the input y’all. Loving getting to know these cool boxes.

[kodiakkodiak]

Ah the one thing I didnt mention about both of these is how EASY it is to make music on them. Like eerily so. Its the main reason Im hanging on to both. Features aside, Everytime i sit down with them for a couple hours, a new song comes out. Havent refined anything to completion per se, but if the goal is to make music (which it always is) these machines get me there faster than just about any other process ive found. As I get more familiar with sampling sequences out of the DN into the DT I foresee the DT and ipad will likely be my travel/gig option. with the DN in studio.

but in conclusion - the Ipad does work for a similiar end result, but i might not get there as easily or quickly as I do with the DN. quick and easy tends to lend itself to longer sessions and more fun. which all leads to better music.

[dreamsaremaps]

For what it’s worth, I was exclusively making music with iPads and controllers the past several years. With live control initially in mind, I bought a DT and DNK to compliment the iPad. That was 6 months ago. I currently use the DT and DN for the majority of my productions and use the iPad mostly to feed the digitakt. DN/DNK gives me a workflow that wasn’t easy to manage on the iPad, especially project to project, control config to controller config, etc. Ultimately my plan will be to reincorporate the iPad into the setup as I’m just now getting completely comfortable with the all the practice I’ve put into these boxes this past half year.

Personally I find them all complimentary to each other as long as you use the strengths of each. Drambo could potentially be a DT+DN+More on the iPad, but again without tactical hands on control and a ton of project management required, not to mention wrangling sync issues.

[reaktiv]

Have you tried iPad + Digitone Keys in audio interface mode yet? If so, can you tell me if the iPad sees it as a 2 in and 10 output interface?

[reeloy]

…if u want that klak klak zak zak workflow feel of the takt also on a synth engine…

well, then…there u go…

besides the fact, that a synth engine, once driven by the swedish sequencer, is a totally different game again, beyond all sample mangeling…

and the klak klak zak zak workflow feel remains the best workflow feel i’ve ever felt…

[Claid]

The real question is, how is FM4 iPad better than Volca FM if I already have FM4 iPad?

Or, how is Digitone better than Digitone if I already have Digitone?

[reeloy]

…the only digitone that is better than a digitone…is a digitone keys…

[Tchu]

@reeloy

digitone keys…

But it’s soooo big. I often think of acquiring one but the space…

[SoundReverend]

Yes they do…. In 2021