How To Connect Cycles and Samples via Midi ; newbie doesn't get it

[Scato]

Stand alone I got the hang of (and serious addiction to) the Cycles and just bought a Samples (which I enjoy tremendously as well, and same workflow ) So most of this wonderful machines I get now, including deeper stuff as LFO setup. So I guess I am not that stupid And groovin along pretty well!

But I really don’t get the whole midi thing, I tried in vain to link these two Elektron wonders
I really googled youtubed but can’t find a proper instruction
the Elektron manual is too nerdy - just 4 months into electronic instruments so almost a virgin technically, so that doesn;’ help!

My q’s are both conceptually (workflow approach musically) and technically (the settings and meaning of them)

CONCEPTUALLY
Which one should ideally be master and slave? Melody on one and Rhytm an other? How do you build up, start by lying a basic pattern on the master that triggers the slave on certain on all tracks? And you can’t make sequence changes on the slave, just mute/affect the settings I guess? I feel I miss a sort of basic insight (probably an elephant in a room)

Does a Samples Cycles midi connection assign automatically the 6 tracks of the master all together to the six tracks of the slave (which will be playing the same sequence simultaneously, unless you mute one of them I guess) Or do you have to assign a few tracks of the master to specific tracks of the slave ?

TECHNICALLY
And how do you set up the Midi Match between the two
Technically? The Menu is mind boggling… so many settings to use>>
Midi Sync Clck in /out
What’s the PCH in /ouT
Why is there an In Chan out Chan setting anyway
(You choose the in vs out/through with the 3,5 jacks cable connection, hardwired, I thought? {
A shipload of port settings (M+U Imp from /Off out to/ INV out pol/ Out Thru) confuse me, not a clue
And what the heck is a midi filter? OF rcv note/ On rcv CC / It encs?

I really feel stupid, and maybe too much q’s for one posts but any help GREATLY appreciated.
THANKS in advance

PS Also Links, books, random wisdom, every hint welcome

[pselodux]

@Scato

Which one should ideally be master and slave? Melody on one and Rhytm an other?

Totally up to you.

@Scato

How do you build up, start by lying a basic pattern on the master that triggers the slave on certain on all tracks?

I wouldn’t do it this way, since you’d need to sacrifice a track on one if you want to have it sequence a track on the other. The best way is to create patterns on both, and use program changes to change patterns on both at the same time (more on that later) if that’s the way you prefer it to work. I personally don’t like having both change pattern at once if I’m chaining two machines, and like the flexibility of being able to start the next pattern on one while the other is still going on the previous pattern.

@Scato

Does a Samples Cycles midi connection assign automatically the 6 tracks of the master all together to the six tracks of the slave (which will be playing the same sequence simultaneously, unless you mute one of them I guess) Or do you have to assign a few tracks of the master to specific tracks of the slave ?

Again, see above. This isn’t ideal on the Models, since they don’t have dedicated MIDI sequence tracks. The ideal use is to disable the MIDI out for the tracks since you’ll be using the other device’s sequencer rather than sequencing it externally (the T1-6 OUT setting in Config menu).

@Scato

And how do you set up the Midi Match between the two
Technically?

Easiest method:
3.5mm stereo cable between the two.
Set CLK OUT to ON on the leader device, and CLK IN to ON on the follower device.
Set PCH IN/OUT on devices if you want patterns to change on both devices in sync (see below).

@Scato

What’s the PCH in /ouT

This sends a Program Change message when changing patterns, so you can keep two machines in sync. If you want this to work, PCH IN and PCH OUT settings in the In/Out Chan menu will need to match between the two devices.

@Scato

Why is there an In Chan out Chan setting anyway
(You choose the in vs out/through with the 3,5 jacks cable connection, hardwired, I thought?

Because in a larger setup you might be using certain channels for certain things, and the flexibility is needed. Program Change messages aren’t global, they’re per channel, so being able to change which channel they’re sent on is a necessary feature.

@Scato

Imp from

INP FROM/OUT TO are for selecting whether MIDI is sent/received through the 3.5mm ports, and/or the USB port. M+U means it’ll use both USB and MIDI simultaneously, so it’s best to leave it on that.

@Scato

INV out pol

You don’t have to worry about this. OUT POL should be set to STD. This is only for compatibility with older devices using another type of 3.5mm MIDI connection before it was standardised.

@Scato

Out Thru

OUT/THRU should be set to OUT. This is a feature that mirrors any incoming MIDI on the input to the output, like a passthrough, so you can daisy chain instruments with the same clock source / sequence data. Since you’re only connecting two devices, keep it set to OUT.

@Scato

And what the heck is a midi filter? OF rcv note/ On rcv CC / It encs?

MIDI filter in this case means that it’ll listen to only certain types of messages. RCV NOTE ON means that any incoming notes, on the correct channels, will play the tracks. RCV CC is similar, but for control data for the track parameters. ENCS selects whether the encoders will send MIDI data out (INT = no, I+E = yes). Again you don’t need to worry about any of these settings since ideally you won’t be controlling one device with the other, apart from clock and program change messages.

[Scato]

Wow thanx a Zillion, Pselodux!!! that is very helpful… I 'll dive into it further with your guidelines. I get the point about pattern changes, indeed nicer if they overlap most times.

PS Thx also for the wording ‘leader and follower’ is indeed more sympathetic than ‘master and slave’ since SM nor neo-colonialism are my hobbies