I wish to come back to hardware after a very long pause in DAWs/VSTs world.
I’m fascinated by the demos of Model:Cycles and the tracks you share are incredible.
I had a Monomachine and an Octatrack 5 years ago but was very frustrated by the complexity of these gears. I spent too much time understanding these machines, experimenting at the expense of creativity and productivity. I had a lot of synths, groove boxes and honestly the most fun for me was my Electribe 2 even if I had other kinds of frustrations (in term of sound for example).
Model:Cycles seems to be a kind of messiah based on what I watched and listened. Seems to be absolutely fun to play and it sounds really great at a low price.
My main point is that it has its own soundscape, which I love today but would be enclosing over time. Second point is the absence of song mode which is a bit frightening.
I watched hundreds of videos and think about pairing the M:C with another gears keeping in mind that I want to avoid GAS and spending too much money (below 1000€):
M:C + M:S: M:S seems too limited and cannot handled its inputs as a mixer. And it does not solve the song mode issue.
M:C + DigiTakt: Don’t want to dive in Elektron’s complexity again
M:C + Blackbox: seems bery interesting but I’m a bit afraid by the lack of direct controls
M:C + MPC One seems to be a perfect couple in order to have the best of what I’m looking for. Fun and Sound of M:C + possibility to sample M:C as raw sound material + build full songs + introduce other kind of sounds/FX, etc…
Maybe M:C first in order to experiment and the MPC One later after few months.
Do you guys tried to pair these two gears. Are you happy ? Any feedback ? Advices ?
I would not call the MPC easier than the Digitakt.
In my experience, Elektron Groveboxes Pair best with other Elektron Boxes, because the Structures are the same, pattern changes work together etc.
Changing the pattern on the M:C from the MPC One is way more of a hassle, than from any modern Elektron device.
I myself pair my MPC one with my Synths and just connect the Rytm from time to time for sampling Drum sounds, but mostly, I use MPC+synths and Rytm/OT/Synths per project.
I’m not sure what you mean by geek trap. M:C is pretty geeky if you ask me
If you want a song mode your list is reduced to [MPC One + M:C] or [Blackbox + M:C]. I personally have a Blackbox and it’s my favourite piece of kit, but my workflow is probably very different from yours (based on very long streaming stems). But you seem to be set on the MPC One, so just try that. It’s excellent value for money if you can do with the multiple menus and options.
Yes it is. It’s also narrower in functionality and does things a bit differently than the rest (particularly its sequencer). If you want a more traditional approach, go MPC.
Well most boxes that come with song mode are a little more complex.
I’m using MC and OT at the moment. And I can’t think of changing that setup right now.
Then again it depends on what your goal is. I want to be able to play a few hours of flowing live techno, thats why i choose the OT with its looping features.
I had the MPC live a few years ago and that didn’t work out at all for me, it’s like a daw in a touchsreen midi controller. Might aswell use ableton for that.
IMO M:C + Digitakt would be the best for you. Fuck Songmode.
DT’s new external mixer is perfect for any two box setup now
If you have a library of samples and loops, than I would suggest picking up Blackbox. It has more focused workflow than MPC and is more playful, but feels lonely without much sound sources. Check Cycles+Blackbox jams by Sudden Language (one, two, three). He masterfully blends Cycles’ sound into more digestible and approachable form using a lot of supporting samples.
I don’t know much about creating new sounds on MPC with its plugins but what I see on youtube doesn’t impresses me personally. I would rather sample Cycles into Digitakt and mangle the hell out of it there.
Second hand Digitakt can be found for $600 with new Blackbox going for $600 as well. It’s $200 over your budget but it will cover all of your needs and will not bore you for a long time. If Digitakt is not your thing, then you could get a cheap mixer with AUX sends and a couple of distortion and modulation pedals to steer Cycles’ sound away from its quirkiness before sampling into Blackbox.
In a couple of months I will have the same question as you and Cycles+Pedal+Digi+Blackbox is the setup I am gravitating to the most.
I know why people say they do, they say it’s because of it’s immediacy but if you only use the mpc one for those same task the immediacy bit doesn’t hold up imo… of course if you’re going to try to do more with one over the other then the one you try to do more with is going to be less immediate
OP mentioned how they struggled with complexity of Monomachine and Octatrack while praising Electribe and Cycles. For me MPC looks like a limited Ableton in a box with additional layers of complexity between human and music caused by UI and hardware DAW workflow — the very opposite of fun that smaller grooveboxes provide. Blackbox is much simpler device than MPC but versatile enough to fulfil multiple roles in the setup.
Also the Blackbox can load projects while staying in sync, which is a big win in a continuous live situation.
The sequencer also has tricks of its own that the MPC can’t replicate (step len / step count / layering oof sequences).
Then there’s also the form factor with the Blackbox packing a lot of versatility in an incredibly small package, which makes it the only piece of kit that never leaves my desktop.
You mentioned the outputs and since they’re dc-coupled they are actually great to control CV gear.
I could go on but hey… MPC is fine too, there’s no clear winner here.
I was missing modulation and resonance on the Blackbox. I also didn’t find a way to the sequencer. That was way too fiddly on the screen.
MPC sequencer on the screen is not much better but playing with the pads or using them for sequencing makes it more approachable for me. Still hoping they roll out the force modulation on the MPC.
Another plus is the effects and the sound engines on board.
It is good, but could be quite a slowdown in workflow sometimes.
As someone already said Elektron boxes are really good on dealing together but the issues come at the time of syncing them with other brands.
I’m into this setup at the moment and despite I’m having some much fun I’m searching for troubleshoots on a daily basis.
Just discovered that the MPC sends out a cc#64 sustain reset at every Stop command which on the M:C corresponds to the channels’ engines selection so this could be a real pain in the ass.
The only way to fix this issue is to filter out that CC message via software or midi boxeor all CCs at all from the M:C, which could limit fun and possibilities of having the two machines connected together.
I also had a pair of weird midi feedbacks that caused a total freeze of the M:C once and a crash of the MPC which I had to force the shutdown to let it live again.
I finally decided to order the MPC One first in order to learn how to manage the beast before ordering the M:C.
I have it since last week. I didn’t have so much time to play with but… I didn’t find it so much menus diving and lacking fun to play.
This MPC One is very very powerful.
I love:
The possibility to make songs
The possibility to convert songs to sequences (=patterns). Great !
The tracks randomization
The sound, pretty good for me
The “Tubesynth” synth instrument pluggin
The “Electric” instrument pluggin
The facility to build synths with single cycle wavs. I know that many samplers can do it also but it’s very easy to have good results with all the parameters and FX possibilities.
Most of effects
The 4 samples layers (which can be set at different velocities)
The 256Go SD card i put inside
The factory expansions / samples inside
I like less:
The “Bass” synth instrument plugin
The “drumsynth” instrument plugin: too limited for me even if the sound if very good. And it is not possible to “play” the instruments
I would like to add: In general I would like to have more modulation options. Currently the LFO for Samples is per trigger. So the LFO is more a repeating Envelope. I would like to have a free running LFO (and maybe a second). Also: The Random/S&H LFO Setting always starts with the same value. That makes it impossible to use it to have random Values per Trigger.
I really hope, we get the modulation options that the AKAI Force got with the last big update.
I agree with the bass synth. I always fall back to the tube synth for bass sounds, if I don’t use external ones.
Have not watched the Video you linked for the p-locks, but as you can automate more or less every setting of a program per grid-resolution in the grid view (On top of recording it live), you can p-lock everything you want on the MPC plattform. I agree that the probability would be awesome, as using the layer only works if you are not using layered samples.
LFOs are quite limited on the MPC, as you say - the S&H LFO definitely needs fixing, and free running should be an option, even if I can see why note triggering is the default.
Unfortunately the Force’s automation updates aren’t a full solution - you do get free-running LFOs, but they can’t be tempo-synced (other than by converting hz to BPM) and can only reset on the start of a clip / sequence - so they don’t solve the case of wanting a different value per trigger. Even more frustrating is that the Hype synth has a syncable S&H LFO, but it can only be used with external MIDI control.
This is hot on the heels of the MC-707, which has a similar S&H problem - it’s a fixed sequence, and key sync resets the whole thing, meaning you get the same values every time. I don’t know what’s going on with LFOs but I wish designers would just look at a couple of Elektron boxes to confirm that they can be implemented properly.
The Bass synth is a bit like being clubbed over the head, especially if you browse the presets, but I think it does have some use if you start from the init patch. It has some odd limitations, though, and I think you’re much better off with Tubesynth set to mono. Unless there’s a big performance difference - and I don’t think there is - the Bass synth just seems redundant.
The drum synths I think are great - they come into their own a bit more on the Force with the extra knobs / macros (and presumably on the MPC X), but even on the MPC One I find them to be very flexible and an excellent sample source. In the context of the thread, I do have a Cycles - but if I’m working on the MPC or Force I can almost always get what I want from the onboard drum synths. Of course the Cycles comes into its own when you treat it as a performance instrument in its own right. I don’t know if I’d have picked one up if I’d had access to the Akai stuff first - I’d have been less curious, I think. But I’m still happy to have it.
