I’m realising that committing to a few scripts is part of the challenge of being able to write something half decent on the norns and grid.
So for now, I’m set to learn cheat codes, cause it scratches my Octatrack itch. I’ll be using Otis and TimeParty for fx modulation before recording. Timber to put it all together into a song, and then Reels just because it’s so damn appealing.
I want to get into some of the granular scripts as well as mlr, but I’ll be going nowhere if all I got are options.
I’m also realising that there’s so amazingly much the norns with grid can do (and now the arc, which arrived to me this Friday). But there’s some stuff this rig doesn’t do (well, at least), but the issue isn’t that it can’t, it’s that I have to keep fighting my old reflexes of how I want to produce beats, loops and stuff.
It’s really super easy to use these kits. It’s not so easy to accept that I have to approach them differently, and let some things go if I’m serious about learning them.
I’m not quite ready to change the way I think about approaching music creation. It’ll eventually happen though, and when it does I’ll let you know, cuz I’ll most likely be going the Norns route.
Geez, a few days with the arc, I had no idea it would add so much to the workflow. The scripts that really take it seriously, use it extremely well.
However, there’s no way I can afford this without selling, so now goes the Blackbox. It’ll hurt, but it is time to leave 4/4 land and enter the territory of strange and nameless things.
which Arc scripts have you been playing with? I’ve only messed with the granular ones and with adding it to my own scripts (I prioritized making music this weekend over writing a loop sampler so you’ll have to wait a bit longer heh).
No worries, I’m keeping busy as well 
Cheat codes and Manglr. Cheat codes especially has a very clever implementation. You can move the loop window, or its start or end points, as you’re playing the grid or editing the clips. It’s like dashing across the tape while working the sound at the same time.
Is there a Mac port of the Norns software? I’m intrigued by it, but don’t really want to spend that much to try it out.
You could build the Norns shield on a raspberry pi. Reasonably affordable for a music device. But the scripts are designed for the controllers so you would be missing out on a lot of aspects that contributes to the instrument.
I’m being lazy, which means this thing probably isn’t for me 
I like how this works but I’m short of time, and it looks like the kind of instrument you need to experiment with. So… I’ll just admire from afar for now
Here’s a little itch that’s starting to grow on me - why I was so attached to Octatrack for many years, and have been to the Blackbox since its launch, is because whatever’s going on in those instruments, the results travel easily between their different sections. Crazy mayhem resamples, granular experiments, loops over patterns and stuff.
It’s so easy to reach incredible and beautiful results with the norns + grid in no time, once you gel with the scripts. It’s a sample sound tinkerer’s dream.
But as experimental as I like to be, I also enjoy writing music for the sake of just writing a song. And whatever you come up with in norns, don’t travel easily to other scripts. Each script on its own can be very powerful, even the more simple and straight forward ones. I can reach Chase Bliss results here in minutes. But to go, “Sweet, I’ll just throw this into my ongoing project in mlr and see where it takes me.” That’s where it starts to hurt, in different ways depending on which script you use to actually build a song.
Still figuring out if it’s me freeing myself from my old process, or if I’m trying to bend this platform into doing this it’s not meant to do. But it does say something that the most played and listened to tracks on this platform, are abstract and free form most of the time (but quite lovely, I should add).
I guess this place where you just put it all and glue it together so it starts making sense, is something the OT and Blackbox do very well, whereas the norns is for other kinds of adventures.
Though there are applications that touch on it. Takt, mlr and Timber all allow for complex and comprehensive song writing. They’re just not quite there yet, I’d say. Or perhaps to my previous point, I’m not quite there yet.
I see that it’s been about a month. At this point, are you still using your monome setup?
I was very close to going down that path, but after doing my research it became apparent that it might not fulfill my needs. I think I’m more of a composer than a tinkerer.
The one thing that did interest me about Norns was the fact that it had scrips for sound processing and effects, although its interface didn’t look as immediate or appealing as using a few effects pedals. I’m curious to know what kind of experience you had with that.
I’ve just recently decided to move on from it, for the exact reasons you state. Funny, they could’ve been my words.
I’m most certainly a composer first and a tinkerer second. The norns platform is fantastic for experimenting, sound manipulation, creative looping and whatnot. It’s totally unique and immensely deep and versatile. But seeing as norns is built to work with all kinds of ideas, the interface isn’t as fluent, just as you say. The grid goes some way to address this, though (it goes a long away). The scripts that only use norns as a display first and foremost and the grid as the tool, they’re by far the best. Mlr, Animator and Cranes among them.
I was enjoying myself immensely recording stuff into norns, taking it to weird places. But when it was time to write a song, the process to move the results around to a place with more coherence, was more of a struggle.
But I learned a lot while I was on this stuff, ideas that I wouldn’t have found elsewhere that I’m taking with me now.
It seems like the Norns would be great for creating a bunch of fodder to feed my Octatrack with, but then again, I already have a handful of synth modules and iPad apps that I use for that purpose so maybe it would be redundant? I think I’ve always just been looking for another sampler that could easily sync with my Octatrack. One that had a different enough workflow to be complimentary. The blackbox almost made the cut, but it doesn’t seem to be able to get into the nitty gritty of sequence editing. I’m thinking that the Polyend Tracker might be the one for me.
This is true, on the Octatrack thing. On the other hand, you might go, “But hey, I can do this on the Octatrack and I know how.” So the process is as important as what it can do.
For example, I’m on a Chase Bliss Blooper right now. That thing don’t do much. But for what it is and what it does, it’s very clever, it sounds fantastic and it’s just so pleasing to use and work with. The very essence of the hardware tactile experience and the core argument for its existence.
Norns and its satellite hardware options aren’t just a thing for the alternative musician. It’s real, useful and sounds great. It’s a platform for experimenting and learning, for finding new ways to do old things. And the grid is lovely, for sure.
I’m still really curious about the Norns, but I’d prefer to not have to use the grid. The grid seems lovely and you’ve definitely made a clear argument for why it makes the Norns experience better, but I think I want something that’s a little more self contained, and possibly more supplemental to my Octatrack- so either a sampler that could play back sequences while easily syncing to the Octatrack, or a sound processor that can be controlled with midi cc’s. Perhaps the Norns has scripts that could to do the latter?
A really focused pedal does sound appealing too. I know you were using the Mood for a while and I understand that it’s pretty different from the Blooper, but both seem like they could be good at processing and looping the Octa’s cued tracks to create transitions between songs. I don’t necessarily want a looper that does seamless dj style transitions. I like a cut and paste aesthetic…
But bringing it back to the subject of the thread, could the Norns function in a similar way?
Yep. Most of norns scripts have their parameters mapped to a fairly extensive midi implementation, and the clock features are pretty good, too. Each script is its own so you’re left at the mercy of whoever wrote it, but midi and clock are general modules developed by monome together with community memmbers, so it’s very likely many of the scripts you’ll like, have solid midi integration.
As far as using norns as a looper - let’s say you got it for looping, recording and sound manipulation alone, no grid or arc, for the purposes of creating transitions or just interesting textures as fodder to use elsewhere - as far as function goes, the norns is pretty damn amazing.
You got Reels, a four track mono looper which allows you to record, rewind back and forth, type style, apply some aged character and pitch stuff up and down. Then there’s Cranes, a two track stereo looper where each channel has sits own set of parameters, which you can tweak independently with playback speed, pitch and stuff. And Oatis, a very direct lo-fi thing that oozes character, not to mention the granular applications in there as well.
The norns hardware interface isn’t great for immediacy or for learning a routine. While the scripts try to follow the beat of some kind of basic design principle, they don’t always manage to do so. What the norns offer in variety and features, it somewhat lacks in the actual hardware interface. The quality is solid, but implementation isn’t always consistent.
But yeah, norns has a lot of cool looper scripts. As a platform for sampling, it’s the most interesting instrument I’ve ever tried.
Since the Blooper is kind of close in price - give or take - you’d wonder why I wouldn’t just stick with norns and don’t even look at pedals. Well, I don’t look at pedals. I look specifically at Chase Bliss stuff, which I consider to be sound processors in pedal format. The Blooper is a very clever thing, and while it doesn’t do a tenth of what a batch of norns scripts can do, it does its thing with a flow and an immediacy which appeals to me. I am getting stuff done with Blooper in minutes.
The comparison with Mood is relevant and as much as I know that Chase Bliss and others say they’re not the same, this is true, of course. But if you’re coming from the Blooper angle, I’d say they’re pretty close. What I liked with the Mood was the textures it made, how fast you got to completely new and unexpected results. Blooper’s the same. Process is different and there’s an unpredictability to Mood which the Blooper doesn’t have, and that can lead to exciting results. But I’d think twice before getting the Mood, if I had the Blooper. And if I had the Mood and was tempted with the idea of this kind of character stretched longer, I’d be eyeing the Blooper.
Dude, thanks for the thoughtful response! As usual, your insights are very helpful. It’s like getting a personal review written for my specific interests.
Now I just have to make a decision…
No worries happy to help.
I just copped a Norns shield off reverb.
Have no idea how to code and won’t have grids and plan on using it mainly as a looper anyone have any good tutorial esque videos they can recommend?