So i am on the edge of pulling the trigger of buying an AR to use exclusively with Ableton Live.
Would this setup be possible :
Many thanks for your help !
In other terms :
Everything you describe is possible
You cannot load different kits from Overbridge right now.
Ok. And in the future ? That would be useful.
Is there a way to switch Kits from MIDI ?
Or should i prepare empty patterns with kits associated with and then load the patterns ?
Anyway, i think i am sold.
Hello back, Elektron !
Ok. And in the future ? That would be useful.
Is there a way to switch Kits from MIDI ?
Or should i prepare empty patterns with kits associated with and then load the patterns ?
Anyway, i think i am sold.
Hello back, Elektron ![/quote]
Yes, you can get around it by having the different kits you need on different patterns and just getting ableton to change the pattern when you want a new kit!
Thanks !
About live’s automation instead of parameter locking.
Analog components and also some other non analog related parameters, needs to be changed in advance so they’ll be ready for the time the note is triggered. This menas that you may use automation but the result may not be exactly what you can get with parameter locks And better not talk about sounds locks (or there is a CC for this?)
Automating parameters with Overbridge performs much better than sending MIDI CC
I see, many thanks.
Hi chapelierfou -
I think I recall your name from back in the elektron users days? I can see you’ve got the wheels turning in your head re: OB and AR, so I’ll fill you in a bit the best I can as I’ve been using it a bunch.
I think the first thing to consider if thinking about purchasing an AR with OB usage as a focus is what sort of system your are currently running. It seems like the latest version of OB has made GIANT STEPS forward in terms of “just working” for more users, but it’s obvious that some are still struggling. You’re running Live - this is a good starting point. From the very first beta, Live has been Elektron’s primary DAW focusing on getting things to work. Others have had far more issues. I guess I can’t really even speak intelligently about what sort of system NOT to run…but I’d do some searching before making the purchase. You’ll find many threads detailing OSes, older processors, DAWs, etc. that were having problems running OB smoothly. For my part, it’s pretty much always run very well, and I truly believe I’ve been in the minority.
I run it on Live 9.5, OS 10.10, 2012 mac mini 2.3gHZ quad i7, SSD, 16GB ram. Again, there’s strong evidence since last Thursday when the new OSes and OB dropped that vastly more users are having success, but I’d hate to see someone buy an AR for express purpose of using it with OB and then have it not work.
Re: what you’ve talked about above in terms of sequencing from Live through OB, that will work. I really don’t think you’d want to discount (or would really be able to replace) AR P-locks though. They’re so much a part of the sound and so intuitive to implement. I don’t even know if you’d be able to get the same sonic results from mad “p-locking” parameters in Live, and I certainly think it’d be a bitch to do so in terms of work flow. BUT…a combination of both is where it’s at for me. I like to use p-locks on the AR to establish the sonic character of the pattern and then modulate things further from live - perhaps a super slow moving LFO, or perhaps automating my performance macros so I can concentrate on other things.
I believe you asked about total recall in another thread. This is something I’m using a ton and I find it indispensable. Will it do away 100% with Elektron’s odd saving procedures? No. But it will help enormously.
The basic concept is that it links AR projects to Live projects. So I open up a Live project and turn on my AR and enable OB. There is an option to enable TR within the OB VSTi, and I do so. I then create for example 10 new patterns and a couple of kits and save the Live project. The AR project is there on your machine, but it’s also now saved within the Live session. So let’s say I quit Live and then open up another AR project WITHOUT saving the one I was working on before. I will lose my work on the machine obviously, because I didn’t save it. But the next time I open that session in Live, my AR will ask me if I wish to enable recall. When I do, the project pops back up in the AR’s working state - 10 patterns and two kits or whatever I did. So what I do is use TR in Live, but also save the project to its own slot on the AR as a backup. It’s simpliest and cleanest in my mind to think in terms of one song per Live project/AR project…which is a bit overkill (I’d never use all 8 banks of patterns in a single song), but it works for me. Plenty of available project slots for my purposes…
It’s important to remember that TR only works with one AR project per Live session, so it’s not like you have access to EVERYTHING on your AR at all times. But the potential is enormous. I still haven’t gotten around to implementing this, but I certainly plan to soon: create a sort of template project in Live filled with a bunch of usable kits, samples and sounds. Because then I can use that a starting point for everything, and simply “save as” a different Live project when I want to start working on something new and customize as I wish from there on.
I don’t know if I explained anything clearly at all, but TR really is a game changer when you get your head wrapped around it. And for me…it works. I was really worried about losing work when this first rolled out…so knock on wood…but I’ve used it for 100’s of hours and it’s always performed exactly as it should.
Feel free to ask more questions!
Thank you so much for a very detailed explanation !
So if i get it right, i could (potentially) :
Enable TR both in OB and AR. That will basically save my AR project within the LiveSet, so i could (still potentially) never save anything on the AR.
If i am right, then a couple of questions :
Will the AR always prompt if i want to do the TR whenever i load a new LiveSet ? Is there any way to set the AR so it does automatically TR ? How long does it take to be ready to play ? I am asking because i use Live on stage and load a new LiveSet for each song, so i would want to avoid being too busy and wait too long between songs.
While i am at it :
How reliable/easy is backing up the whole AR to a computer ? Does it get confusing managing samples ?
I remember backing up the MDUW with samples was a nightmare. So confusing. And to be honest, the whole reason of me wanting to use Ableton Live to save the AR state and to sequence it as well is : i’ve been traumatized by loosing stuff, either by human error, or with a MD frozen. I became paradoxically more confident in computers (backing up is so easy). Although i don’t know if i would trust a VST to save important stuff (i barely use VSTs at all, for the same reasons as above : to much to set up in case of a dead computer or whatever, and it increases the probability of incompatibilities as the OSs evolve).
Well, that sounds a bit paranoid ! But you know, music is such an important thing !
i cant speak for samples (in fact im actually confused about whether or not TR actually deals with them)
but, the TR process happens in OB, you turn it on, and synchronize the machine.
you can choose to hit ‘sync’ manually, to save the current state of the machine to OB, or, you can turn on the option so when ever you save the Live Set, it saves the state of the machine to OB
if you have the machine plugged in, and open the live set, the machine will automatically prompt you to load the Plugin state, or the Machine state, and reload take something like 5 seconds
Yes, you could never save anything on the AR. But it’s so simple to save it to a new project slot on the AR as well…and as you’re paranoid (as I am too) I’d suggest this practice as a rule.
As far as automatic TR, it exists - there’s an option within the VSTi that you can click that will sync DAW and AR projects every time you save. However, Elektron have called this…experimental?..can’t remember the exact term, but IOW it’s not 100% there. So I don’t use it. But yes, even without this, if you’ve ever instigated the TR process in Live, every time you open that project, you’ll get a prompt on your AR screen asking if you want to accept the TR. Very easy!
Now as far as loading times go, YMMV based on the speed of your computer and I suppose the number and size of the samples in your project. Not certain the factors which influence AR project loading time. It doesn’t seem any longer to me than stand alone AR project loading time. But it can take up to…maybe 30 seconds on the long end? It’s the sort of thing where the samples load in stages. Like I’ll find that a sample on one pad still hasn’t loaded for a few more seconds, even though the sequencer is otherwise good to go. I’ll time one and get back to you. You’d definitely need some sort of plan for this down time on stage I’d think…
I’m with you on the paranoia stuff, as well as a general dislike for the whole Elektron backup paradigm. Like Mattleaf, I’m not entirely clear on exactly what is stored within a Live TR session as far as samples go. I doubt that the actual audio files are there, but certainly a reference to them. In other words, I think that if I were to give a Live session to another AR user who had the same samples stored somewhere on their +drive, it would open on their AR exactly as it does on mine. I suspect that worries related to having the samples in the exact same slot are not a concern with OB, but I need to ask Elektron about this as I’ve been curious for a while.
But yeah, it’s definitely a form of backup for sure. If you have your work on your AR as well as in a Live TR session…and if you have your samples saved somewhere, you should be set. Still not perfect. Really wish there was a 1 button back up 100% of everything instantly button 
Thank you.
I need time to think of this.
but before anything else, i’m heading to a friend to try the AR. If i don’t like the feel or the sound, that would put an end to the thinking !