I have a setup consisting of Digitakt+Digitone, which I use mainly to sketch out song ideas. But there comes a time when I need to transfer everything into my DAW and finish working in the box.
On paper, Overbridge seems amazing. The ability to record each track separately and in sync is exactly what I need.
But in reality, this is what I find.
I cannot record both Digi’s at the same time, cause it creates latency.
If OB is set to Clock+Transport, it automatically syncs to the DAW’s grid, which is good cause I can easily make loops. But it stops recording whenever I hit the Stop button on my DAW. This is a pain, cause it cuts the decay of whatever sample/synth is playing (as well as the Reverb/Delay tails). It limits what I can do with each pattern.
If OB is set to No Sync, I can use the Digi’s transport buttons and it lets the sample/synth play to the end. But then, I have to manually sync the Digitakt tracks to the Digitone tracks on my DAW, as well as manually adjust them to the DAW’s grid. If I have more than one or two patterns in a song, it starts to become VERY time consuming.
I use each pattern as a different song section. That’s why I’d rather record each pattern separately and make the final arrangement in my DAW.
A workaround would be to record each pattern twice with a different sync setting. But that is kind of excruciating.
Am I missing something? Doing something wrong? Anyone have any suggestions?
You are not doing anything wrong.
If you want to edit you edit
If you do not want to edit… you record your arrangement as jam and hope you will get it in few takes.
Or you program your pattern changes from daw, send that to your boxes and record the returning audio streams. you could send cc to modulate too.
Or you jam on the digi and record the midi and automation in DAW using Overbridge. Do some touch ups and editing in the DAW if you wish, then send that to Digi and record the audio back into the DAW.
It takes a bit of setting up (the first time), but if you set it up and save as a template it is easier in the future.
I don’t use Overbridge VST at all. I just expose the Digits as USB audio interfaces and made an aggregate device. Lowering my sample buffer made the latency manageable from a performance perspective, even with an aggregate audio device combining both Digits. If I want sample tails I just use the transport controls on the boxes; if I want to stop recording I press space bar. Using Ableton, though — YMMV with Logic which I’ve found quite annoying with hardware in general.
It ain’t painless. After a few years of trying comfortable with it i gave up. I ended up with 2 worklflows:
a) completely out of the box and use pc as multitrack recorder (using adat audio interface). Downside the mix has to be perfect because of the lack of individual outs.
B) i use DT and DN synced as midi sequencers to sequence vst instruments and fx to keep the hands on elektron workflow and the pc as sound sources.
Both no overbridge. I like overbridge for printing the analog Heat though.
Had some aha happy moments with Overbridge but those moments never lasted long. As soon as i find myself Ending up with a time consuming re edit task i wonder if I could’ve better produced that track from scratch in the box.
These problems are inherent to recording hardware. Getting FX tails especially. Working in software alone provides incredible workflow enhancements, but people get used to those things and it can be difficult to understand how/why things are different when recording hardware. There are workarounds for everything you’ve mentioned, but it’s not something Overbridge or any software is going to be able to provide.
However, it’s not all doom and gloom. Working with hardware, learning how to overcome latency, capturing perfect loops from hardware including FX tails etc is all part of the experience and you will become a better producer at the end of it all.
@gekkonier@aloud
If I understand correctly, you can send your program changes as MIDI to your DAW? I haven’t found how to set it up in Logic. That video only deals with audio tracks.
@protrusion
I tried that, but somehow it doesn’t sound right.
I guess an easy “fix” would be to be able to control the transport settings on the DAW or the boxes at the same time. Hit record on the DAW, then stop playback on the Digis and wait for the FX tails to fade before stop recording on the DAW. (No idea if that’s feasible in programming).
Im not sure (because i only have an octatrack - not connected atm), but as far as i remember you need to send a simple program change to your digi-whatever - that should be an easy task for logic.
What does the manual say about this?
I guess you need to set channel for that on your digi-whoopi-doopi, but I can’t remember, because I cant remember much things.
…consider using overbridge rather in standalone mode than as a plugin…
all sync, latency and monitoring hussel aside…
…main goal is to catch the magic on the fly in single tracked audio…
…to do this as a separate step and only THEN import those audiofiles to a daw to pick the cherries and start the edit and arrangement process, is good for my mind…good for my daw workflow…aaaand good for way more focussed sonic results…
to be able to do everything at any moment, keep all options open to the very end does not guarantee the freedom we tend to think of as a huge advantage in first place…in my experience, that’s totally overrated…
sure u need quite some shaping options to stay open until the very end of all mixing stages…
but it’s always a question of the right balance, as with everything else, since it’s also a great thing to make decisions along the way, u have to deal with from then on…
so, give it a try…connect ur elektron boxes to a standalone ob…capture total realtime madness, just based on some raw patterns…take those audiofiles to the daw of ur choice…
and start all producing with some tasteful reducing…
(and this won’t really work if you want to make arrangement changes on the fly) but I use a midi track specifically for pattern changes in Ableton. Like you each pattern is a different part of the song so I just move things around in the DAW until I feel like I have the song arrangement in place before recording.
As for the tails, I always create a blank pattern at the end in my digs. So 1-8 are song pieces and pattern 9 is empty. This allows the effects to hang for as long as you want and press stop on the DAW transport whenever you feel like they have tapered to your liking.
One thing about the song arrangement method that I mentioned you will have to take into consideration pattern change and make sure you get your bars sorted accordingly or patterns won’t change when you expect and things can get quite messy.
I haven’t tried program changes, will see if I can give that a try later or tomorrow.
IIRC with mutes (on AR) it doesn’t send a mute midi event, but the midi notes will not include the muted tracks anymore. So if you record that and play it back it will still sound correct.
If it doesn’t send program changes, the changed pattern’s notes will obviously be sent, so they should be correct on playback. But if the new pattern uses different sounds, that won’t reflect, which is obviously a problem… But I will try to check what it actually does.
If you need advice with setting up midi tracks, let me know and I’ll try to explain. It wasn’t very intuitive in Logic Pro, but I got it working to something that works ok for me. Bit of a mission the first time, but I saved it as a template. It would be nice if Elektron could include instructions in Overbridge manual, but they probably feel that is Logic Pro domain and they are not going to teach you Logic…
Overbridge + controlling vsts with DT & DN work perfectly for me in Ableton and is now my main workflow. I use overbridge plugin clock only, not the one from the daw, this way very limited latency. I don’t even use the machines in standalone mode anymore (not enough portable and better results with the refinements possibilities from the daw (eq / saturator / compressor when needs be).
I actually found a workaround to my issue that works.
If I set the sync mode on OB to Transport+Clock, I can press record on my DAW, then change to Clock only or No Sync while recording so that I’ll get the FX tails.
It suits my workflow, where I like to have the different sections recorded separately and use them as building blocks to arrange the song on my DAW. I’ve set the buffer size to 512 and haven’t encountered any latency problems so far.
I definitely feel that OB (either in plugin or standalone mode) is more designed to capture “performance” of an entire track, rather than exporting different patterns onto a DAW. But it’s just not what works for me.
It’d still be nice to have an option on OB for recording one-cycle patterns, though…
I just wrote to Electron about this very topic…they provide zero instructions for Daws of choice…which is like saying we make software but only test it on one computer, ridiculous. If they make a product which promotes sales for their devices then put in the effort to document the software installed into a bunch of Daws… They’re a lot of passing the buck to forums like these to get people to do their work. And frankly, much I see is called work arounds and not ideal. What’s wrong with wanting your hard earned bucks purchasing something you expect, rightfully, to work out of the box?
Just my 2 cents…and I’m in the 3 day process of trying to figure out how to get OB to play and record in BitWig.
