Hello,
I am trying to wrap my head around the sync issues I’m having with Overbridge and my Analog RYTM.
For starters, I’m an not using OB to record audio, just for sync.
I know there is around 35ms of latency expected (35.9 on my system) but I can’t seem to compensate for that with any method in Ableton Live that I know of. I’ve done the “error compensation” test with my RME FireFace 800 and apparently it’s spot on and requires no adjustment. I’ve also adjusted the “Track Delay” by both positive and negative values on both the Overbridge Track and the Audio Track I am trying to record to. This has resulted in no difference in terms of actually recording accuracy.
On top of that, I seem to be experiencing several mille-seconds of jitter despite trying every setting across the “margin” setting.
I’ve seen posts on here where people mention “rock solid sync” through OB so I guess I’m wondering if that is an overstatement and my results above are expected, or if I am doing something wrong.
If the former, can anyone offer tips on how they deal with this? If the Latter, could someone help me better understand?
Thank you all!
So I realized I was sending USB MIDI from Ableton to the RYTM while also using Overbridge. I hoped it would be as simple as turning that off and letting OB take over, but in this setup, OB does nothing. No matter if I have Clock, Tempo or Song Position, the sequencer does not work. I’m at a total loss…
Hi you not give any informations regarding your system PC-MAC a little bit of info regarding what’s inside.
You not mention how you set Overbridge and Audio Buffer and Buffer Safety Margin.
If you followed the Overbridge Manual setting piece by piece without forget anything.
How many USB device is connected on the computer, Hub ? no Hub etc…
We not have much informations
Also explain your Ableton Live project with the RYTM sync and recorded via RME FireFace 800.
Why you need to SYNC ? how you want to SYNC ?
How you want to use Overbridge in your Ableton Session ? (explain what you have in mind)
it’s late but if you gives more details, someone will reply and give you hints 
My apologies. I’m on a Mac Pro 2008 2.8 Octo Core, I’m running 10.10.5.
I’m connected directly from my AR to the front USB jack.
I’m also testing on a MacBook Pro 2010 2.66 i7 dual core running 10.10.5
Mac Pro Ableton: Interface = RME FireFace 800, buffer=128, “zero” driver error compensation (ran test and no adjustment needed). Reporting 8.94ms Overall Latency. All MIDI settings for RYTM are disabled in Live
Mac Book Pro Ableton: = built in audio, buffer = 128, “zero” driver error comp, Reporting 5.12 ms overall latency
RYTM: System in “OverBridge mode”
Overbridge (same for both systems): Buffer = 128, Machine Sequencer sync = have tried all settings with same results, Margin = have tried all settings with same results
As per my second post, OB does not start/stop sequencer unless I engage MIDI settings in Ableton Preferences. From my understanding and also posts I’ve read from “Ollie,” these are supposed to be completely turned off and OB alone should be driving sequencer.
havent read the whole thread but i heard Ableton Live and Sync issues … i have the same, all the time. Latency Compensation simply doesnt work in Ableton Live. Its not properly implemented. So you need an insanely good Audio Interface to not experience Latency issues with Live.
I dont like it but Cubase Latency Compensation works. Even with cheaper Audio Interfaces i experienced no issues at all with Cubase on my PC. So when i need to record / play something spot on i still have to use my old copy of Cubase 7.5. No luck with Ableton Live on my side too. This is not an OB issue.
I use a RME FireFace 800 and I consider it quite up there in terms of accuracy. In fact, sequencing other synths directly from Ableton (i.e. several Moogs) I get very very little jitter and rock solid timing in terms of recording. I know I can go back and sequence my RYTM’s sound engines directly from Ableton, but then I don’t get to use the tricks and beauty of the Elektron Sequencer (the main reason I bought it in the first place).
It definitely seems to be on the AR/ OB side and not my interface.
Okay, I’ve reinstalled OB on the MacBook Pro and did get the sequencer to react via OB. I also set the AR as the Audio Interface (in/out) at 64ms buffer. Now the weird part, the sequencer on the AR is actually running ahead of Ableton (cutting off the beginning of the first hit). It does seem to be better in terms of jitter but not by much (even at full margin setting). I know my computers are getting old, but they still handle my other synths fairly well…but to be fair, the AR is the only one with a sequencer built in.
I guess the main question is: is anybody getting rock solid sync? Or is this still an issue across the board?
I’m too short of funds to pick up the USAMO by expert sleepers, but I’m starting to think it’s a must. My issue is I’ve already recorded lots of audio from the AR into Ableton and had to adjust the timing. Now I want to add more tracks but I don’t want to spend all that time adjusting everything again (it took a long time, especially to correct the jitter).
Again, thank you for all the help so far!
Not true. I use a second hand MOTU Ultralite (Mk 1) that I bought almost 10 years ago and it is rock solid. FreeBot777 has an RME which if anything is probably better
FreeBot777, are you monitoring audio from the direct outputs of the AR (the physical TRS jacks) or are you monitoring the audio from OB through your audio interface ?
In my case I get rock solid sync. Motu Ultralite, Ableton 9, AR and A4
Monitoring everything through the MOTU
It’s as solid as Expert Sleepers (I have an ES-40 also)
Solid sync on all the versions of OS X since OB was released (bar the first few versions)
I use the Song Position sync option
Ableton is still the master clock in this scenario.
To Run/Stop the A4 and AR I have to use the Ableton transport - not the AR or A4 transport
i always had trouble with Live’s Latency compensation, thats a matter of fact 
Im on PC. Before the Elektron machines i used an Emu 1820m Audio Interface which was probably the best for the money you could get back then It wasnt overly expensive and it had some seriously good pre-amps. In Cubase i got 14 ms roundtrip latency (7 ms input) but i had no issues with the audio coming from external hardware, it was in sync with the rest of my project. In Live i got nearly the same but the Audio was always off. And setting the Track Delay did not work, it had literally no effect at all. I used the same ASIO Driver in both cases; the one coming with my Audio Interface.
Now with the Elektron machines it is the same. I have Latency, but compensation works in Cubase. Not so in Live. If i record or monitor from the external Inputs via Overbridge, the Sound is off, depending on the Latency. If i do this in Cubase, the sound fits perfectly. So … this leads me to my assumption that there must be something wrong with Live’s Latency Compensation and im not the only one experiencing those issues. Maybe you dont have those issues if you have insanely expensive Audio Interfaces, but … not everybody has and for latency - one invented Latency Compensation, so it should work either way
Using the external outs whilst using OB as sync is the problem. The physical outs of the Rytm are NOT actually in sync
However the audio coming over the USB from the Rytm is in sync. Or should be at least
The audio over the USB is not the same audio coming from the physical outs. Indeed if you listen to both at once they will not sound good
Hi,
I’m monitoring from the TRS physical outputs. I was just using OB USB for sync. After reading the posts below though, I am going to try recording from OB’s USB option versus recording directly into the FireFace via Physical Outputs.
I’m hoping that will solve the unpredictable latency/jitter issue I’m having.
I’ll up date after I try OB recording only tonight.
Thanks!
If you forget about recording and the physical outs for a moment.
You should be able to stream the AR audio over USB and sync it solidly to any other clips etc in ableton
I think the audio appears at the physical outs BEFORE it appears out the far end of the USB cable. The two streams of audio are not in sync.
Set up a track(s) in Ableton to monitor the AR using overbridge. Put OB in Song Position sync. Throw in some drum loops or other ableton clips. Use space bar as play/stop. If you like what you hear, then arm the OB tracks and press record
Shouldn’t be any sync/jitter issues at all. No need to adjust track delays or snip latency gaps off the beginning of recorded audio
This is how I use it any ways.
Well, I’d love to try it out but for some reason, OB on my MacPro will not send clock/tempo/sync. I’ve re installed twice, latest update of ableton 9.7.1 and OB and AR has latest too. USB is directly connected to computer. This was happening earlier now that I think about it. It seems to work on my MacBook Pro but not on my MP.
I’ll have to test on the laptop later tonight. Anyone know why this would be? The systems are kept near identical for various reasons (same OS, same software, same plugins, etc…).
Hot Damn!! I mistakenly thought I was up to date, but Elektron released a new 1.31B firmware and it’s working. On top of that, Sync is pretty darn solid (super super tiny bit late, but not noticeable to my ears at all). Now, for some reason, despite also updating it to the latest firmware, not audio from my Analog 4 over USB. But that’s for another thread. As for this one, I think I’m good now! I can’t tell you how much time I tried to straighten this out. I never thought the physical and usb output would differ. Thanks much Cocker, you now have a place in my metal heart!
Glad you got it sorted. Nothing wrecks the buzz worse than bad sync
I’m not 100% sure about how exactly the OB sync works. Elektrons have never said much about the mechanics behind it.
But I’ll bet my bottom dollar it’s not too different to how the Innerclock Sync Gen II with the difference being everything happens over USB instead of TRS
If you’re interested in real solid sync and being able to use the physical outputs then Innerclock is the place to look.
Or with one Elektron synced via OB, daisychain another Elektron to its physical Midi out and then record the outputs of that machine
I’ve been looking into Expert Sleepers USAMO for a cheaper alternative to Innerclock.
But hold on, OB sync will keep my other hardware gear in locked sync with AR and Ableton by chaining out of the AR’s MIDI OUT? If that’s true, that’s amazing! But it also begs the question as to why the AR’s Physical Outs wouldn’t be synced…?
Either way, I’m gonna test that out later tonight or tomorrow. Thanks for the tip!
It’s not that strange. There is a difference in latency between your audio interface and the interface in the unit. Overbridge knows the latency for the whole system in general and its own in detail but not how you have routed the audio. It can not detect if you take the audio from the physical outputs and connect that to your soundcard. And as there is a difference in latency if you do(since the audio take a different path than expected) you will have latency. You will even have a third case here with a different latency and that is if you directly monitor the audio without using an audio interface.
To solve this you will need a setting to tell OB how the audio is routed. This setting is not there yet, but will be.
So if you need a good sync(I’m isually down to 1-2ms) you will need to take the audio from the VST.
Yes correct. The hardware MIDI output from the AR is synced with the OB plugin
The only problem in the scenario is the dodgy MIDI clock generated by your DAW
The OB plugin bypasses this and generates its own MIDI clock
So once the AR sequencer is running, the MIDI clock out is also running
Regardless of what it is actually synced to
I was very excited to hear all this when OB was first announced
I too had my eye on an Innerclock system
But now it seems OB does the job just as well