wow that sucks
Yeah quite dishearteningā¦ I really hope they do one more updateā¦
Or, perhaps we might get lucky in 5 years when they make it open source 
1 Like
I seem to recall Pioneer being very clear somewhere, that the SP-16 wonāt be getting anymore updates.
If we ever see something from them again in areas of sampling workstations, my guess is, itās a new product.
If that new product ever emerged, hereās what Iād like from it -
As is now, cause itās already awesome, but with -
-
Streaming - no limit on sample playback or sample recording, except what the memory card allows
-
Quantized recording with resolutions down to at least 1 bar, and up to 256 bars
-
Each sequencer track has its own step count and resolution and step count goes up to 256
-
Each track runs free from each other track - it stops and starts at its set quantize value, which can go down to 1/64th and up to 8 bars - loops running outside the SP-16 sequencer already work like this, so you can get around it either by using only loops and launching them live, or create blank patterns where loops run free after theyāve been launched from a previous pattern
-
Proper midi polyphony - the one thatās there now is almost provocative, since clearly the SP-16 can do midi polyphony but itās just a pain to program it.
If this was all in place, Iād make the Toraiz my primary weapon of choice. As it stands now, the Blackbox is too good at what it does for me to use the Toraiz regularly, despite it being awesome in areas the Box isnāt.
1 Like
Iād add the following to your excellent list:
-
The ability to delete samples using the UI of unit itself instead of being forced to do it using a computer.
-
A competent forum - in both function and moderation - with at least some engagement from the tech team (presales or dev leadership). Any time you start to take Elektronauts for granted, spend a while on the Toraiz forum / f**ebook page.
2 Likes
All true, mate. Solid additions.
Elektronauts is exceptional, but as far as community support goes, monome, Synthstrom and Novation are rock solid as well.
1 Like
Japanese companies are typically not very āopenā to customers. No opensource, and no public feature roadmaps.
1 Like
You did some pretty neat tracks with the toraiz IIRC ā¦surprised to hear youāre using the black box primarily. It seems quite different.
1 Like
Agreed. All excellent points.
I was about to sell mine, butā¦damn. It just sounds so freaking good. I think Iām going to add the as-1 to my collection also.
For anyone interested, the latest thread Iāve been referring to is here: https://forums.pioneerdj.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/900002191886-Sp-16-Opening-the-OS-Alternative-third-party-operating-system-option
Againā¦it really really sucks that the only guy replying to any questions about the toraiz on pioneers forum says that its a āone way communicationā with the dev team. Ugh. How 2021 is that!? 
1 Like
Thanks. Yes, it is. The Blackbox fits my way of writing better. The Toraiz fits my way of working better, but in the end, the way I approach sampling doesnāt work with the Toraiz.
whereād you find information about a new management?
1 Like
Pioneer DJ was sold to Noritsu in the first half of 2020.
2 Likes
check citizens link
For what itās worth, someone claiming to be from PioneerDJ and associated with the Toraiz product line chimed in about five weeks ago on the Facebook thread regarding open sourcing the firmware. His tone was constructive and I felt he provided a fair rationale as to why the itās very unlikely to happen.
As someone who runs a niche software product team and is also an open source fan from the earliest days of Linux, I can imagine the significant obstacles they would face in trying to get such a move right, given the nature of the different intellectual property boundaries, code and multiple embedded platforms in the product.
While technically it could be done, the total cost would probably be greater simply allocating their dev team to closing out the remaining critical issues in the SP-16 / DJS-1000. Since thereās no evidence theyāre doing that, my guess is that the beancounters at PioneerDJ (or their latest owners) have decided such money is better spend on other, higher-margin products with broader appeal.
Key quote for those of you thinking of buying either unit:
We just donāt have any current updates planned but thatās not saying āneverā either.
I reckon itās still worth heading over to FB, up-voting the thread and - if you have the time - politely encouraging that PioneerDJ guy to make the case for a further update among his colleagues.
4 Likes
I got a bit of an odd request recently. Iāve released two EPās from January to May, and have been asked to come and play a small show at a private venue in September - but to perform club-ish versions of the songs.
Considering the EPās slow and melancholia atmosphere, itās a bit of a funky request, but Iāve decided to give it a go and return to the Toraiz for the purpose.
Wish me luck 
6 Likes
Sounds like a good plan ā ]
1 Like
Weāll see that 64 second limit is going to be a challenge. I wonāt be able to work myself around it, but will just cut all loops over 64 seconds and do something else with them, to maintain the sound and vibe but use it differently.
Just got into live sampling on the SP-16. Holy moly!
Hooked up my Circuit Tracks to the SP-16 and jammed this out in like 10 minutes. Live sampling.
I just got a Force to learn but the SP-16 wins tonight for me. Love this box
5 Likes
Great track, mate.
I keep my finger on the trigger to sell the Toraiz, but can never bring myself to do it. It just sounds so - damn - good.
2 Likes
I hear ya. But every time I turn it on, Iām always surprised. Seems like thereās always something to learn
1 Like