However I can say that if your working with Elektron gear only then the Rytm is fantastic…
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Yeah, I totally believe that. But I am trying to integrate it in a larger system comprising different synths and modular gear, all sequenced by the pyramid. So apparently the rytm is just not the right choice for me…
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I initially wanted to use my elektrons to sequence my gear however I’ve concluded that the MPC X is my hub for that… p-locks and the sound of the Digitone is the only reason I keep it other than that midi program change sucks compared to Akai 
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Yep, I’m feeling this pain right now, sold my OT, still got 3 Elektron boxes but using MPC ONE as master, and it really kills positive vibes towards Elektron. They should make it a top priority to fix this across all machines as many people will be moving to the ONE or Live as a DAW replacement and it’s a very negative experience compared to all other gear I own.
On the analog machines If you use the MPC program change box it causes them to double strike the first step so it always a step behind when using Play Start. I think it’s pretty shocking in 2020 this is still an issue across every machine… the age of this thread and silence is embarrassing.
Apart from that I love the Elektrons, but there is a lot of competition now that can handle pattern changes, they no longer dominate the market as much as a few years ago and it should worry them I think. When it comes down to it the Akai is the winner of this problem.
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Hello Everyone, I’ve read up all that I can on this topic on this forum as well as the Squarp forum, but still have a couple of questions on Pyramid program change timing issue:
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Does the issue primarily manifest itself when the pattern is sequenced on the Elektron device, but receiving master clock (and program change message) from the Pyramid?
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If yes, is a potential workaround just to sequence on the Pyramid instead? I am not suggesting that as the solution as I appreciate the power of the Elektron sequencer - I am just trying to understand if there’s any easy workarounds as I am considering the Pyramid as my master sequencer (vs my Digitone).
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I assume that even if a workaround is to sequence on the Pyramid, that the program change lag may still be an issue. For instance, if I send a program change from A1 to A2 on the Digitone (to access a different set of sounds on the 4 internal tracks), even though the note data is being sent from the Pyramid, based on what I’ve read here, I assume that there could be delay in the Digitone switching patterns and the wrong sounds might play for the first bar? Has anyone experienced this?
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For those working DAW-less AND heavily invested in Elektron devices, what are you using to sequence non-Elektron gear? (assuming that you need more MIDI tracks than the device offers - e.g. more than the 4 MIDI tracks that Digitone offers) The Cirklon 2 seems awesome, but is so expensive.
I am looking for at least 8 tracks of MIDI sequencing and realize that Octatrack and Digitakt are options, which would sidestep the program change issue completely if I stay inside the Elektron universe, but are overkill if I’m mostly interested in sequencing capabilities.
No. Elektron devices always needs to receive a program (=pattern) change early. If they receive a program change too late (== when the next loop has already started), the minimum delay is 2 steps (with CHANGE LENGTH=2).
Sequencing from external doesn’t change this behavior. If you want to switch to a different pattern for different sounds with a program change, you’ll need to send the PC early.
But on some Elektron devices like the Digitone or the A4 you can use the multi map feature to change patterns just in time by sending notes to the device (instead of PC messages).
Your question is a little ambiguous, but yes.
That may solve some of the problems (but see your next question).
Another workaround is to use the Multi Map feature (that some Elektron gear provides) instead of the Program Change message method.
If you wanted to work this way then this could be a problem; hence the utility of the Digitone’s Multi Map feature.
I imagine that most people would use an Elektron instrument as their primary sequencer. If a different sequencer is needed, it could easily receive Program Change messages from the Elektron.
Perhaps not so much overkill as just very different machine to a Pyramid. You need to consider what style of sequencing you want to perform, beyond the mere track count.
@tnussb and @peterhanes - thank you both for your very thoughtful responses. I hadn’t considered the multi-map feature of the A4 and Digitone as workarounds.
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could u more explain how you do / set it up with overbridge ?
I haven’t got a rytm but this whole subject is make or break for me, is it possible to do instant switches via overbridge so that patterns can be mixed?
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I don’t think so, but I’ll try tomorrow. This is a really important feature that I’d love to see working as well. But in any case, overbridge has proven me to be not so stable, so…
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Just for info; i use mk2, in the manual it states on page 22 that
“MIDI program change messages 0–127 selects pattern 1–128 (A01–H16) on the Analog Rytm MKII.
Additionally, MIDI CC and NRPN messages can be sent to control various aspects of the Analog Rytm MKII. See
“APPENDIX C: MIDI” on page 82 for a complete specification.”
I use Bitwig as DAW; is the above complete BS or has anyone used it and it worked? I´ll try tmorrow…
Program change does work, but they have to be sent early otherwise they will happen on the following cycle unfortunately. The master step amount (whatever it’s called) in a pattern also decides when it can change, setting it to infinite will never change.
Oh and I think they have to be sent on the auto channel.
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I’m not using Overbridge but I’m happy with how I got my PC changes working with Bitwig. I put my PC changes into clips on the first beat of the bar then I roll the clip start point back and set the Q to loop on. Then you set a corresponding Change Length in the Rytm
Then I use Scenes to jump in and out of sections of my arrangement or jam or whatever. Bitwig fires the PC changes out early enough so the Rytm can change on the first beat of the appropriate bar along with all your other patterns/clips/scenes whatever on your other instruments.
It’s not instant but I don’t want that anyway cos my timing is good but I’m not a robot or an actual drum machine. As long as I switch the scene like, before the last bar of a 4 bar phrase then it works fine. I think I tried to get it down to CH LNGTH 2 or something - just for the hell of it - but couldn’t quite get it to work reliably. Or at least I got fed up and thought well it does what I need anyway so fk it.
Jim
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Ah, sounds good. Do you use bitwigs program chance tool to do it?
Ah, om the auto Chanel? I would have thought it worked on the PC channel! 
Guess i will test both. Thanks!
Hi,
Also heard the clips would be a way to do it, not working with clips however confuses me, tried it once but could not find how to add the PC to the clip, is it the same, the bitwig plugin named the same?
Thanks for a long description, saving it for reference!
Yes, sorry it is the PC channel! Doh! I use mine with an MPC and don’t use PC at all, the Rytm goes step out of sync by 1 step the moment you try to anyway. I hope one day they will sort it out and it’s the only thing that depresses me about my Elektron boxes.
You can handle instantaneous program change on any elektron box using a list of midi commands.
Since program change are instantaneous when sequencer is stopped, you have to trick the system.
Send you program change as usual then send immediately a stop message then a restart message. Done.
I made a little video of this trick using blokas midihub if anyone is interested.
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Yeah, I’d like to see that. If it’s glitch free then there’s absolutely no reason why they can’t sort it out in the firmware.
Yeah I’d like to see that. I tried this ‘trick’ with BOME but couldn’t get it to work consistently. That said I was sending stop, then PC then start.
(As opposed to PC, stop, start)